For people who don’t think legalizing Marijuana is not important, think again what about all the innocent people who’s lives have been destroyed by prohibition and Steven Harper is trying to punish people more how can one party want to legalize and another wants to put people in jail for longer times, he is only fueling the gangs not hurting them. Marijuana has more medicinal value than anything on this planet and the goverment can not keep it from us any longer it cures cancer and many other problems if you dont belive just type (Rick Simpson Oil)in google and watch some videos, read some articles and it will blow your mind.. As far as i am concerned today is the most important development in legalizing marijuana i have seen in a long time. Way to go Liberals you have my vote
Bad news. I can’t believe that this is “the” issue that came out of this weekend. The country is scared about their savings and jobs, the Euro zone is about to blow up, and what do you debate? Dope? Yikes! What the heck are you smoking? (Pun intended.)
For the record – I think that it should be legalized and taxed. But yikes – this is NOT the most important issue faced by Canadians. Wait until you get into power, and THEN put this stuff forward. To put this out now — it’s way too idealistic and naive.
Affirmation of 117 by a resounding 77% is hardly bad news. It demonstrates the Liberals are a party capable of dealing with the most contentious and under rated of issues of the 21st century head on. Nothing idealistic or naive about that.
The convention demonstrated a Liberal Party dynamic capable of living up to the expectations required as Canada’s Bold New Party! That’s not a missed opportunity.
This is the type of issue that should go to a national referendum. The Conservatives will have a field day with their religious/tough-on-crime base, this plays right into their hands. You need to get elected first, and then put out these types of issues to the entire country. It’s not good enough to say “the majority of Canadians support this”. Let Canadians vote on this as a separate issue and clearly indicate that they support it.
Beware of hyping up “consensus” within the party. Sure, it’s nice, but some dissenting voices are entirely necessary.
Cynical ‘Adult’ was quoted as saying… “The Conservatives will have a field day with their religious/tough-on-crime base, this plays right into their hands.”
It is the cons “tough on crime bill” that is scaring the pants off the average Canadian… and driving them toward us..it is so far out of touch with the reality in this country.
In the Kelowna–Lake Country riding several informal polls validate this with 79% of people opposed to Bill C-10 and 78% in favour of legaliazion. Despite the obvious dislike of the C-10… we have no voice here… its being shoved down our throats…117 is an issue who’s time has come.
We will look a lot worse if the cons chide us in the public eye.. and then we back down from resolution 117… the public/political will is there.
Do we want to look weak kneed or look like some guff from the cons can get us to waver… IMHO this would make us look much worse.
In the last year there has been a virtual landslide of credible people backing this very cause… health officers in BC, mayors, politicians…
Public opinion is on our side.. don’t let the cons sway our resolve on 117
If you are worried about jobs and the economy, then you should be happy this is on the table. It’s legalization would create thousands, if not tens of thousands of jobs. Growing, trimming, drying & curing, transportation and finally retail sales.
All these steps in the process in delivering quality cannabis to adults across the country requires a lot of workers and managers. The resulting increase in jobs, results of course in more consumer spending, thus resulting in a better economy.
Our economy would also no longer have to lose half a billion dollars a year to enforcing useless, ineffective policy, as it does today.
This is a much more significant issue than you seem to think.
Liberal’s, please don’t disappoint our country! Know you’d make history as the revolutionaries who took the first step. Please make this move to legalize cannabis a reality. :)
Congratulations on the success of the Convention. It was truly inspiring. Now that there is a yes vote on 117 – the Liberals certainly have my attention. 77% support is truly significant.
Its blatantly obvious to me, and a lot of other people, quit whining about this and that, bottom line, GOVERNMENT NEEDS MONEY, people in this country(no not everyone)want to keep all our government services, and add more for crying out loud, but they don’t want to pay more taxes, you need more revenue, plus its a green plant, therefore it creates oxygen, and also removes carbon dioxide through the process of photosynthesis, I don’t care about all the online christian warriors saying this and that, increased crime, blah, blah, blah, too bad, you’ve had it your way for so long, where the alchol industry pays the right people to maintain their status of the only legal drug. I’m sorry I’m so angry, but to me, this is a no brainer, first of all you do it on a probationary basis, meaning if it goes bad, eg. people sitting around all day smoking, and doing nothing else, THAT WON’T WORK GUYS, sorry. The first thing would be an application for a license to possess no more than a certain amount, and said license should cost around $100 dollars every year plus tax, and if the individual chooses to grow themselves, great, but they will have to apply for a growers permit, which will cost around $500 a year(because they won’t be purchasing government grown pot). Liberal party this is your only chance to survive, do a formal poll, not some one day thing, do an actual official poll and see the numbers in support of this, and even if its like 20-40 percent, approval, you have no choice, the revenue you will generate makes it too tempting. The best part is you will free up a lot of other useless funds, like the police busting marijuana drug rings, REALLY, pot rings?You will be able to focus on the real problems, stuff like Heroin, cocaine, and Crystal Meth, all I can say, you are on your last leg Liberals, I voted on every election since I was 18, and there is only one way you will ever get my vote, and I’ve just explained all you have to do, thank you.
Yes, it time we move forward and decriminalized marijuana. Canadian public opinion has not been the cause of the delay. Most Canadians have favoured this action for some time. My only comment taxation is this case referred to GST which would be applicable and up in general revenue. I would included that any additional tax or excise be direct to effective drug addition treatments rather than general revenue.
its time for legalization… and time for people to step up and not be afraid to admit…
I AM CANNABIAN !
I am not a burnout or a loser, or a menace to society. I’m just a person who enjoys the effects of cannabis. I am your friend, your relative or a co-worker.
Cannabis is not physically addictive, not a gateway drug, and substantially less harmful than alcohol or tobacco. What’s causing real harm is the failed policy of prohibition, which is providing a lucrative funding source for organized crime.
It’s time for facts and reason to replace ideology and prejudice. It’s time to stop wasting taxpayers’ money on a harmful policy. It’s time to end the hypocrisy and legalize cannabis for adults. It’s time for all cannabis consumers to speak up and proudly declare…
ok so they do allow links for the last 6 months i have been gathering information on the endicannabinoid system. and have made a page on my site with video’s i have found important. http://www.germstv.ca/ecs.htm
That is a great link showcasing the benefits of medical marijuana. It is unfortunate that a vast majority of Canadian doctors wish to side with pharmaceutical companies rather than endorse marijuana and its copious benefits. The R. v. Mernagh case from last year showcases this fact as numerous witnesses (who all suffer from serious disorders) were brought forth to give firsthand accounts of the fact that doctor’s are refusing to provide medical marijuana for patients who need it across Canada. Moreover, in some cases the physicians make faulty statements saying they are not licensed/qualified to do so or that it might “look bad” on their reputations. Interestingly they are exactly the people given that authority by Health Canada, and before I write for days I will leave it at that.
there’s actually 65+ cannabinoids like thc and cbd in the marijuana plant ,but lets not get into that ;p
there’s a lab in santa cruz that tests cannabis. they work with growers who wish to breed cbd back into the plant,while still keeping a hi level of thc. it’s not hard to fix the damage illegal growers have done. that would be a benefit of having it legal and regulated.
btw our bodies make cannabinoids. anandamide and 2ag.
Thanks for the clarification Dan. I have long felt that the cost of policing and imprisoning people for possession of cannabis is not worth the risk to society of legalizing. I have been to Amsterdam and they seem like a civilized bunch…I am sure we could be the same. I think the US’s biggest worry is how many folks would be booking their next vacation here!!
kirsten… legalized & regulated cannabis would be available for public sale (to a specified, minimum age group & above) & taxed just like alcohol and tobacco… once legalized, you would be perfectly free to grow your own for private consumption… this is all about freedom of choice and righting a 90 year old wrong that should never have happened.
Making hootch in your basement isn’t legal. The problem with today’s pot is the potency – as much as 100 times more than it was in the sixties and seventies. As a result, the CBD is just about nil.
Selling it in a similar manner as alcohol just might get more of the population to agree with the proposal.
Pardon my ignorance but what is DBC? By the way….there are no regulations on how much we drink. It is perfectly legal to go out and get trashed every night. Clearly level of consumption is not the issue. Just the type of consumption.
If you mean CBD, it’s a naturally occurring element of marijuana that counteracts the harmful aspects of THC, such as Schizophrenia.
The higher the TCH is ‘bred’ into the plant, the lower the CBD. We can’t legally drink over proof spirits either. It’s set at 40% for a reason – death by alcohol poisoning. One generally passes out long before that occurs, unless the alcohol content is closer to 100%.
@ Christopher Making wine is legal though and its the safety issues in question as to why hootch isnt because it requires a still and a still requires heat You are not supposed to weld in your basement either…so what?
You are miss leading and I say completely wrong in fact If you think cannabis is 100 times stronger in fact I say you are lying
I challenge anyone to find these so called devil or killer weed and please send them to me for analysis because I know its a lie
If you did find some I want it any way…thank you
CBD …?? now you are going to pretend you are not just reading DEA materials?
Please explain how many cannabis samples you have tested ..where they were tested and what levels of THC and CBD you have seen??
Again I call BS
How much should normally be in cannabis Chris??..go ahead…
And what does it do?
Please show the levels for the last 80 years they have been ruining peoples lives for it …??
Was this the excuse all along?? ..LOL
Then please explain HOW YOU GROW CANNABIS WITH OUT CBD..??? YES PLEASE?
I am blown away by the levels some go to I really am
I also laugh my face off with some who think if it again becomes normal and re legalized that some how they will then need to worry about trying it if they have not done so so far..LOL
Ignorance and misinformation needs to stop please
There has always been good cannabis and bad ..meaning weaker and less bang for your buck
Like with Everclear alcohol which of course most never get to try it is available and like with strong cannabis when it is used it is used in smaller quantities
And it is Prohibition PERIOD that results in the attempts to concentrate drugs PERIOD !!
Prohibitionists are totally responsible for Chrystal Meth and the soon coming flesh eating Russian cocaine soon here…but bottom line all the problems start with prohibition itself and LIES and greed.
Hi everyone, This has truly been a very thoughtful discussion, not to say debate. We appreciate that the conversation remains on the issue at hand and not on the people expressing their views. Personal attacks and insults will not be tolerated so thanks everyone for keeping this civil, respectful, and thoughtful. Discussion is an important part of democracy so by all means please keep going.
You are correct Andre’ and I am sorry but lies or mistruths or what ever are very important to respond to I am not attacking Chris I am responding to the tone his words project and I still say that unless we deal with issue it will become much much worse the assortment of altered drugs
It was my own police department who put out those angel dusted pot stories and it took a lot of work and pushing to get them to admit that they have never ever really ever found any
Those I have fought for over 20 years will…some of them… even kill to keep this substance illegal
I make no bones about my sense of urgency
But Chris I apoligize if I went over board
See you in Ottawa …I look forward to our discussion
I am @ Le Suites and will be there thursday evening
Cannabidiol (CBD) has been linked to the prevention of schizophrenia. I spent a good deal of time researching the subject after watching a documentary.
I am not opposed to legalizing marijuana, just the absolute right to allow it so potent that the benefits are dissipated.
We regulate alcohol for the same reason, and many studies have been done as to the benefits of moderate consumption. As with many things, it’s the excess of consumption that causes harm, and we don’t live in a Libertine society. We wear seatbelts, can’t drive intoxicate and have a myriad of other laws meant both ourselves and the people we affect.
I hope you read my story of how we got seat belts eh?
Yes like Everclear which is the purest and strongest legal alcohol you certainly wont find many shooting shots of it
Like the alcohol model though is how I see it and we will clean the supply and provide the correct levels so that most will just as in liquor stores just use mainstream varieties
BUT PLEASE REMEMBER !! SEND ME THE KILLER STUFF EH ….LOL
See you all there !! ….I know our chances are limited what with harpercrit already scared to death we will even try to talk about it
I am sure he has a plan to make sure liberal never wake up…I imagine some back room deal like with the ndp and the greens?? perhaps
lizzy would have been a Senator about now I suspect ….had see not consumed the green party just to get herself important with MP salary
Decriminalization is definately the first step which needs to be taken in Cananda. I agree that Canada needs to start making their own decisions rather than worrying about the United States, especially when considering many of the individual states have decriminalized small possession already. This action is much easier said than done, however I think we can all agree it would be refreshing to witness our government taking the forefront on properly dealing with marijuana as well as other social issues. The prohibition of marijuana has failed, plain and simple. Canada needs to explore alternative avenues and it begins with properly re-educating its citizens who have been lied to using false statements and propaganda.
Decriminalization would do nothing to undermine organized crime or to safeguard youth and communities. Decriminalization does nothing to negatively impact the black market or grow operations.
These are the types of progressive laws that Canada needs. Financially and morally it just makes sense. I think there would be opponants, but it would take no time for Canadians to get used to it. Think of gay marrige. This would create a great national discussion on where justice is headed and where it should head. It would also greatly serve to define us from the other parties and show true strength and vision.
“the enocannabinoid system” google it marijuana is a medicine. even smoking it . health Canada agree’s scientist’s have discovered it’s compounds like thc have incredible healing properties. cannabinoids are the miracle drug everyone’s been looking for. they’ve known for years. tissue tests and animal test have been done . there making cannabinoid based medicines right now. patents are coming out. ” cannabis science ” its the new medicine
and were arguing if it should be legal or not. these stupid laws,prohibition . is presently holding back the progress of Canada . in many ways.
*A doctor in the states gets teens with add ,adhd to smoke pot and there able to function properly after wards.
*smoking pot lowers your chances of getting cancer -dr.taskin ucla
Unless we as a Nation are willing to remove ourselves from the U.N. Treaty on controlled substances – which would lead to the immediate closure of the border to the US – then we can not legalize Marijuana. It would require agreement from the UN to remove marijuana from the same classification as heroin in the treaty.
We can decriminalize it and should. We cannot regulate it. Comparisons to alcohol are flimsy at best. One can illegally grow pot for their own consumption without detection or hardship. The difficulties and dangers in the operation of a “still” to produce alcohol on the other hand is what allows us to regulate that particular vice.
I disagree that the States would close the border and risk the certain economic disaster that would certainly cause. It is time to stop treating ourselves like the step child of the United States and act in our own interests knowing that we, as their largest trading partner, have leverage and are not subservient to our neighbours. They can have their drug war but we should not be influenced by it. Also, legalizing, regulating and taxing marijuana would decrease smuggling. People tend to smuggle illegal products, not easily accessible products.
If you believe alcohol should remain legal, consistency requires that marijuana should also be legal. To begin pontificating about how this resolution might be perceived is a coward’s way of saying that convictions are not as important and spin.
The government should not have say over what we put into our bodies, especially if it is a substance scientifically proven to be less harmful than many substances already on our shelves.
Then you should know you believe in funding organized crime. You have to be realistic. Prohibition creates Capones. Weed prohibition creates a massive fund for bikers and other criminals to buy guns, cocaine and influence.
it is not a matter if something is good or bad. Prohibition simply does not work, making alcohol illegal didnt curtail drinking, it caused a mafia war as different families battle out for dominance. It does not work, it never worked, and it will never work. The supreme court already decriminalized simple possession. So there is no reason for them to be scared of having it. That’s alot of money for the hells angels and Rizzuto family.
besides average joes god given right to get hi besides an end to marijuana related crime besides stirring the economy besides it being regulated better, out of the hands of children besides it opening a new field of scientific study
there’s one more thing to consider. the thousands of people who have to wait months to get medical marijuana. people with epilepsy and nausea from chemo.with depression who have to fill out forms that doctors have to sign and witnesses to sign saying the doctors not liable then they have to get an assigned grower, then send in the forms, wait 8 to 10 weeks for a permit ,a card. then , you can legally take your medicine. and they have to fill out those forms once a year, the medicine is expensive and allot can’t afford it. to me that’s a crime in itself. make people go through that to get medicine. why can’t any doctor give out a prescription and the person takes it to a pharmacy and gets it filled ? its our current laws that are causing this to happen. it’s sickening .
if health Canada is approving it to people with pain and depression non lethal conditions isn’t that a sign it’s not that bad for us? and that in fact it maybe beneficial for some to smoke.
So, how exactly are you going to get this legislation past Harper’s stacked senate? It’s the same old game. This will have to be legalized by “activist”judges. WE have a system that’s so screwed up that the PM can stop legislation of the next govt by loading up the senate. So many bills have died due to falling govts, or stacked senates, I’ve lost count. This should have been legalized in the 70′s but we had to study the study or the study of the study or the research of the study. lol. Politicians jump on this band wagon whenever they know it can’t be passed. Seriously. HOW are you going to pass this legislation ? Pass a bong around the senate chamber? If not, don’t count on the conservative senate passing legalization of Cannabis. This needs a supreme court bypass or a referendum. ASAP.
You discount any of the Senators being actually human
Harper only made his latest round of graft appointments because Senator Nolin announced he as a conservative would not support the crime bill because cannabis should be legal !!
Oh yee of little faith
It must be done…and it will be !!
If anything it can rebuild the party and hopefully they will then remember this time when in the drivers seat again
But not all Senators are as stupid as harpercrit thinks.. I say
there was a man in nova scotia, his name is rick simpson. if you google his name you will get a Ton of hits. from around 2003 and 2009 he cured around 300 people of cancer. he grew pot on his property which he informed the police of this. he made oil and gave it to people for free. he found out allot of information on how much is needed and what kind of symptoms people are going to have . obviously the cops were watching him and they started sending sick love ones to him. eventually it got to big, he became to well known. it was working and the news was spreading to the wrong places. the rcmp shut him down , it went to court. they refused to hear statements from doctors and people cured. he was given a $2000 fine . a year later he was in Amsterdam picking up his freedom fighter award and the rcmp raided his house and informed him when he returns he will be arrested. he’s still in Europe do you think he should be in jail ? this Canadian knows more about hands on cannabis oil treatment then anyone on the planet .
most of the people in jail especially for marijuana related crimes should be doing community services etc , it has been shown to work far better then imprisonment , and it’s allot cheaper .
i’m wondering if anyone does research on marijuana? let me sum up what i’ve discovered in the last 6 months. why does pot get you hi ? its a chemical called thc. how does it work? there are receptors in the brain for thc. well that doesn’t make sense the brain would not develop receptors for a plant chemical, there has to be a chemical we produce that binds to these receptors.[cb1 and cb2 receptors] yes there is they have found 2,2ag and anandamide .cb1 is the most abundant receptor in the brain , and not just the brain but the entire body is covered in them mostly cb2 . it is an entire system we use to regulate just about everything . its called the endocannabinoid system . google it. google dr.melamede . the endo cannabinoid system is at the heart of evolution. the cannabis plant has over 65 different types of cannabinoids in it . this is the most important discovery in modern medicine . digesting cannabinoids . the oil extracted from the cannabis plant prepared and digested in a certain way will replenish and reset your endocannabinoid system. it tells cancer cells to die, turns off the bodies autoimmune system and resets it so in the case of t2 diabetes it makes your tissue sensitive to insulin again. right now companies like sanofi aventiss and others are scrambling to put out pattens on cannabinoid based medicines. BTW people who smoke cannabis have LESS incidences of cancer then people who smoke nothing at all . tests done by dr.taskin ucla.
One would think 10,000 for an education or housing or hell nicotine patches made more sense eh?
Think of the damage meat eaters really cause
Shouldnt they be jailed too?
I hope some gay people get my point about some here thinking it best to still jail them too …until more studies were done…and done by straight people hahhaha
See you all in Ottawa…you wont be able to miss me if you are around for this topics discussion
Maybe I can look at some the wrong way and be taken to jail so that some do not get nightmares as I stand up for my and 3 million other canadian citizens rights !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are some very strong arguements both pro and con on the legalization of marijuna however in the many comments I have read, I think most of you are missing one vital element, public perception and support. I live in a small community of 5000 people and yes marijuna is as available here per say as anywhere. However, knowing all the people who live on my street personally, those using marijuna would be less than 15%. I know the seniors would not support this proposal and therefore would vote against the Liberal party if this became a policy. I also know the 10 to 15 year olds and very few of them if any are using marijuna. I have a 14 year old boy and I know what is going on around here. As a matter of interest I would also state that the majority of this youth category would also vote against the proposal if they were entitled to vote. Yes there are some good arguements for legalizing this drug, however it is similar to tobacco. Tobacco is regulated by government but cigarettes is one of the biggest items on the black market. Also those now growing marijuna for profit will not stop doing so just because you legalized the product. Regardless of the pros and cons, I do not think Canadians will support this proposal and thus the Liberal Party looses at the polls.
I would support this resolution except for the part where it eliminates all criminal records of past convictions. Breaking the law is breaking the law, even if that law is no longer valid. It would be different if we were talking about people who were arrested for openly protesting this law in order to change it, but that is not the case in the vast majority of convictions. Most convictions are of people who know it is a crime, do little or nothing to change this fact and break the law anyway. On top of the blatant disrespect for the law, these people contribute to organized crime through their purchases often knowingly. while it is fair to say that this is because marijuana is illegal (and so on these grounds it would make sense to legalize it I agree) it does not make sense to say they are not still responsible for their contribution to organized crime. As long as they have a choice, which they did, they must be held accountable for their actions. Actively contributing to a criminal element and disregarding the law should have consequences and those consequences should not be retroactively undermined. Put simply, even if we agree they were right to smoke, I do not think it follows that they were right to smoke in spite of the law having not first engaged the law.
SMART ON CRIME, I like that. This would be smart on crime.
I’ve read somewhere that 85% of the crime in the country is related to drugs. That most of the money that the crime organizations make are from drugs. So we need to look at who has an interest in keeping the status quo:
1) The Drug Importers 2) The Manufacturers of Illegal Drugs 3) The Criminal organizations that distribute the drugs. 4) The local Crime Boss, and his front people. 5) The people selling drugs on the street corners. 6) The people selling drugs on our school grounds.
You all know of these guys, but have you considered:
7) The lawyers who defend the criminals in court. 8) The lobbyists who are working the halls of government and justice. 9) The police force, who receive funding based on the size of the Drug problem. The police have no interest at all in catching the the drug pushers and closing down their organizations. 10) How about our prisons, without drug offenders they would have to close half of them. 11) Judges, Crown Prosecutors, court personal etc. 12) How about the whole drug enforcement system.
The list just goes on and on: All these people have an interest in keeping the system as it is.
So how do we stop it?
To stop it you need to take the profit motive out of it.
So how do we do this?
Well let’s start by treating drug addiction as a disease (which it is) and giving the addicts prescriptions for their drugs. You then have a chance to reach these people and maybe turn their lives around, at the very least you take them off the street. Reducing street crime, break and entries, prostitution, muggings etc.
Addicts would be getting cleaner drugs, and clean needles, reducing the costs to the health care system.
This is complicated and start up is costly, no where near as costly as the crime it would replace, and the legal system the drug trade supports. Complicated yes, not as complicated as the system we are running now.
Next step legalize recreational drugs, and sell them through government outlets. Costly start up but would very quickly pay the cost of the whole preventive system. Also, people would be getting cleaner drugs, and would be less likely to try street drugs.
There would be very little reason for the development of new recreational drugs, (no money in it).
There would be no one at our schools pushing drugs at our children.
Our Police and court system could be refocused on other hard core crime problems.
Over time, the number of addicted people would drop, but the big change would be people coming into the system from the hard drug side of things.
There would no longer be a profit motive, at least not on any great scale.
why do people smoke pot ? to get hi. to get stoned . but do we know why we get hi from a plant resin? yes we have receptors in our brain – there called cb1 receptors [cb2 also] when someone smokes pot the thc stimulates these receptors in a certain way. but there not there just so we can get hi . they were already there. in fact the cb receptors are in almost every creature on this planet. it is at the foundation of evolution .its the difference between insects and us these receptors are in every part of our body they are used to regulate almost everything. its called the “endocannabinoid system” we create these cannabinoids in our bodies naturally . thc is just a type of cannabinoid.but the cannabis plant has over 60 cannabinoids in it,only a few get one hi.smoking cannabis has little health benefits compared to digesting the oil from it. by digesting the oil you replenish a system we use to regulate everything.even the way we think.i mean replenish because in our modern world our endocannabinoid system is working over time fighting off all the toxins we consume or are exposed to. the endo cannabinoid system is what we use to fight off illnesses like cancer or autoimmune deceases. so digesting cannabis oil, that is full of cannabinoids gives our body the fuel to fight off these illnesses. so yes i say legalize it ;p it will end gang related violence , it will stimulate the economy and create new jobs.and it can cure the sick.
make it corporate. YOu buy a permit, a permit is good for ten years, and it costs 30 million upfront. Clean, legal, funds. Let the tobacco companies take it.
That is an interesting idea zach…re-constitute all them old tobacco farms in southern ontario with a crop that has a medical, commodity and tax value … jobs,jobs,jobs
Iam pulled in different directions on this resolution. My gut reaction is all I have on this one. I support this because it just seems the right thing to do despite knowing that our support will be fodder for the conservatives in the next election. We liberals were known to take tough decisions on issues that are not always politically smart but aregood for our nation as a whole. Regulating marijuana is the right thing to do. Throwing Canadians in jail for small amounts of marijuana is just wrong. I deem this issue in the same light as prostitution, both are mostly moral in nature that need to be regulated to be made safer for those involved.
It is a waste of time to talk about legalizing Marijuana in isolation, it will never happen. We have to talk about it in terms of being SMART ON CRIME, not being TOUGH(STUPID) on CRIME.
over the last year or so i have been gathering information on the endocannabinoid system [e.c.s.]. though i cannot make links here my web site is after the at symbol of my user name. though my site is closed for a major redo i have left a up page with links i have gathered on e.c.s. its mind blowing.
E.C.S. = the endo cannibinoid system our bodies produce the same chemicals cannabinoids -that are in the marijuana plant. we use them to regulate every thing in our bodies even the way we think. marijuana is not a drug it is in fact the most essential nutrient one can digest [not smoke -digesting the oils]. there’s an excellent film by len richmond called ‘what if cannabis cured cancer’ which is does. proven by a man from nova scotia who cured 100′s of people of cancer. Rick Simpson. digesting cannabis oil is the cure in fact for many illnesses i have links galore but i don’t think this comment area allows them. as i tried ;p
Absolutely! Canada has the highest consumption rate of marijuana in the industrialised world, and the marijuana industry here is worth billions of dollars. Marijuana is not going anywhere, and a responsible government would be one that legalises and regulates it. Let the provinces create crown corporations reminiscent of the LCBO!
Let’s allow the responsible use of marijuana for adults, use the MASSIVE tax revenue to support our healthcare system, and use the money saved in our criminal system to help enforce laws that protect Canadians from crimes that actually create victims!
Don’t get me started..If you REALLY dig deep the current prohibitive laws are actually COMPLETELY CONSTITUTIONALLY ILLEGAL! Let’s get this simple plant OFF ALL LISTS & drag it out of the mud where it currently is..This is one of the most remarkable plants on the planet & the public MUST reverse the image now-GET EDUCATED & GET OCCUPIED-no one human has any right to tell another human they can or can not grow a natural plant for free, for starters.. I’ll leave it at that. Oh, fyi, ‘recreational’ use constitutes only 0.01% of this plant’s beneficial uses..Interesting that 0.01% is regarded as 100% in the general population’s mind. The time is NOW.
We the people are being and have been lied to, held under water as to the TRUE LIGHT this plant should be recognized for – the saviour of the planet as well as our own sorry asses..Any wafers only need to do themselves & everyone else a favour by WRITING A PROS & CONS list & pass the word on when it is realized how backward public perception is in its present state.
Law enforcement will certainly benefit from the ridding of ALL associated laws, people will rightfully have the freedom to plant/grow/harvest whatever we need or require, or simply purchase such like one would ginger root.
Mega jails, moronic diatribe from evangelical pulpits, are the true poison here. Again – the TIME IS NOW..to unravel the complex & seemingly overwhelming subterfuge we’ve been force-fed at the expense of our own civil liberties & self-healing avenues.
From youth to seniors, the education starts now – there really is no argument against this plant (see your pros & cons list) & it would be in everyone’s best interest to engage on this matter to bring a free, NON-ADDICTIVE, non-synthesized, non-toxic pain-management system to a life near YOU! #2/ BTW, in the photo – the iconic ‘FAN LEAF’ – interesting, that that is the LEAST useful (post growth) part of the plant (outside of materials manufacturing) but the most recognized.. There is actually NOTHING useless of this plant – every molecule is a benefit to mankind & the planet we live on.
Shame on the Dupont family & all other monopolizing-minded government/corporate pole-stroking zealot who continues to keep the masses in the dark & blind-sided from the truth.
THE TIME HAS COME – & as I always knew it was ‘a commin’….
PASS THE WORD – ORGANIZE & PUT IN MOTION – the truth – as well, there is no ‘legalize’ or ‘decriminalize’ issues here – this plant is to be COMPLETELY & WHOLLY STRIPPED OF ALL CONTROL, TAXATION, LIMITS, PROHIBITION, MONOPOLIZING, INTENT TO MANIPULATE or DECEIVE the actual benefits IMMEDIATELY – notwithstanding the reversal of all existing criminal records & cases presently before the courts to properly reflect the reality & truth surrounding the current constitutionally ILLEGAL laws under which our lives have been & are being currently subject to.
This is an outrage & has to be concluded with haste. Canada needs a PRIME MINISTER – not an egomaniacal buffoon with a religious agenda..
By SUMMER 2012 – get this bus headed in the proper direction once-&-for-all..
YOU IN????
Starting … NOW!
ps 1/10,000 benefits: (pure cannabis oil on psoriasis will brighten your day – & shock the hell out of you as to why you can’t just make this or buy this for next-to-nothing as it costs very little to produce (sans black market/government lies) & will heal the skin in a matter of.. well, almost instantly, actually!
Go READ – TELL YOUR SENIOR FAMILY MEMBER there is a simple ingredient that will actually help them sleep, feel pain free – all from cannabis – & FREE TO GROW with the tomatoes & beans..
#3/ The day is soon – when this plant is as hyped as FRESH GINGER ROOT!
At the LPC-BC Annual Convention in Victoria last month, our grassroots policy process led to a number of resolutions being passed by over 300 delegates in attendance – including a proposal to legalize and regulate the cultivation and sale of cannabis. This policy was chosen as a priority resolution by Liberal Party members at the Victoria conference and the Young Liberals of Canada have kindly agreed to blend their existing resolution (#117) with the approved BC policy. Thanks YLC! Last week four former Vancouver Mayors (Larry Campbell, Sam Sullivan, Phillip Owen, Mike Harcourt) and the current one came out in support of the policy too.
hmmmm…thanks for sharing this information…i’ve long held that this poor plant doesn’t get the respect it deserves… whether a person subscibes to its’ use or not as an individual choice, it is , put simply, something that grows naturally in our environment, and should be accessed fairly like any other plant found in nature… The wealth that could be distributed through its’ regulation by government is ‘mind-boggling’… There are so many possibilities.
I personally support the “legalization, cultivation, distribution, and taxation of marijuana” by the Federal Government! Let’s get ‘er done in a way, like alcohol, controls and effective “pro-active” taxes are in place to supplement tax $$$ and support pro-active “abuse programs”. This is simple! ( .. or should be!??)
It ties it all together I think How we got here…where we are headed
More importantly it offers solutions and makes this issue to be as I know it is… just the tip of the iceberg
Just maybe as a human……..please watch If you do take two hours and do anything for yourself
Watch this
What will you do???
“”"”the problem of course…. like usual…. is the free energy machines
Until more take their own energy independence seriously nothing will not change, nor can it
That old adage “” tune in …drop out”” comes to mind
At least here…. all bc hydro machines can still stay operating and in fact and only cost pennies to run
So this province is equipped to handle a revolution of sort’s best and still keep the lights on
I see much much more violence first before it ever comes to this movie but because of this movie I do now yes see the result”"”"
I guess what I am saying is I will continue to try to see real truth and honesty is front and center in the liberal rebuilding or I wont be part of it …as the big picture is my real agenda
We all need to wake up and whether you like it or not you will be forced to I think This issue is as I say … just the tip of the iceberg….if we cant deal with this one with so much truth and fact …..we will never be taken seriously to deal with the rest of the obvious answers
The liberal party stands at a critical point and many are waiting to see if they in fact …get it !!
Follow the U.S, experience here and prepare a seriuos plan to manage the drug before going much further. I would suggest putting together a study group to resolve the issue but in the meantime at least decriminalize the use of small amounts and give the police the tools to keep users off the roads.
Just to build on the point about the former mayors of Vancouver, I thought I’d point out that there are both left-of-centre and right-of-centre politicians on that list. This is the kind of policy that appeals to thoughtful people all across the political spectrum, and at its core that’s what the Liberal Party should represent. We should strive to be the “Big Red Tent” that stands for thoughtful and rational and moral policies, and that isn’t beholden to any ideological straightjacket.
As the votes on these resolutions …now close… I for one…would like to thank all of you for making this happen
After all the disappointments we have seen in the past decades
And with games still being played here we have over come again
Thank you all so very very much!! …. bravo !
All our groups have been involved here….every last one by my records Nation wide support and involvement…. You know who you are so please congratulate yourselves and more importantly your teams !
I would also say though to have a look through most other resolutions here and notice we did do it our selves and notice who commented on those other resolutions and more importantly WHO DID NOT on ours
We will still…. I think… have a huge battle to actually get any help within this party as the “politicos” I think… just hold their nose and just tolerate us…. yet obviously ignore our resolution….on purpose
Shades of green and ndp come to my mind….. if we come here But there is no green party any more…..(its the self possessed elley may party now) and the ndp to us now means “”now done party “””….its the liberals turn to lose us
Millions of votes can come if they are smart
Many would like us probably still ignored here I am sure and pretty much say so in other resolutions here
Sadly the stigma we all carry is all they really still see and sadly our fight will still continue here… I think any way…..YES that is until a real leader voices his confirmation of what we say here
We must now do it again within the party and stand up to “fake” liberals here that are really only concerned with optics We must show them what we can do and have done
We will I know if they are not just fakes and cowards like the ndp turned out to be and as they have been and as some obviously still are
Now comes the real work if we are to continue building this party
Will they be worthy??? I am hopeful but not going to waste my time nor money as easily as I have in the past
We now await A SIGN
Are they liberals or are they not?
We shall see as we wait with baited breath
But yes we have again risen to the challenge and I for one am finally hopeful
it is high time we take marijuana off the criminal list. it should be a personal choice, and it does a lot more good then tobacco, just to think of those who need it more medical reasons. why deny them that opportunity to live a life without pain.
Let me start by saying that I suport the resolution, and I hope that it passes. I believe that Jonathan Toma is right that our southern neighbor is a stumbling block but not only on this subject,but a series of others as well. By standing up here in Canada (the best country in the world)for progresive polisies we can oppose neo-conservetives here and south, it would definatly steer the pot(ha ha),in this time of 1% vs. 99% this might not be so easy to oppose even in the US. I understand that over half our population has tried marijuana.We can not accept to have them all be criminelized. As we are looking for relavence with Canadian electorate and a way to mobilize, we need to stand for some real principals that resonate with Canadians.This could be a way to do the right thing,regain the world’s respect and become a world leaders again,and help canadians fix our bottom line in no small part,and at last but not least to find the militants from coast to coast to coast that we desperatly need to mobilize the public so that we can regain the iniatiative. We have done this before ( the international non aliegne movement, saying that police has no bussiness in our bedrooms or bringing on the quiet revolution that saved Canada, health care etc.etc.etc.)we have been courages in the past and we have only gained from our courage.
Lets find the courage of our and canadian convictions and by doing so save the country.
As long is the THC and the CBD are regulated as with alcohol, legalizing it is better than the current alternative.
I have no personal wish to alter reality, but for those who do, there isn’t much difference in damage between the two. There will always be addicts and abusers.
Four former mayors of Vancouver have signed an open letter calling for the legalization of pot, saying “marijuana prohibition is — without question — a failed policy.”
Mike Harcourt, Philip Owen, Larry Campbell and Sam Sullivan have endorsed the Stop the Violence BC coalition, a group that favours legalizing marijuana to reduce gang violence.
The letter goes on to say that prohibiting pot is “creating violent, gang-related crime in our communities and fear among our citizens, and adding financial costs for all levels of government at a time when we can least afford them.”
The coalition recently released a survey that suggested most people in B.C. oppose current marijuana laws.
Do you? Why or why not? What reasons would you give for ending or upholding the prohibition of marijuana in Canada? Let us know what you think.
Two day Tally ?
Thank you for voting! Yes. 92.95% (14,932 votes)
No. 5.74% (922 votes)
I’m not sure. 1.31% (210 votes)
Total Votes: 16,064
ps
I certainly hope I have not just scared some away by telling the truth about what actually goes on by even our own government as people stand up? Yes it is and has been torturous and very bleak and lonely ….beatings … jailings…audits…lost jobs/loans…..discrimination in leaps and bounds…yes As if any of it should be hidden???
If so you are condoning terrorism in your own country and like politicians…cowards and willfully ignorant
In 4 days this chance to educate those in charge here will be over
If you dont do it…WHO WILL??
When they come for you….remember when you could have done something
I rest my case
Please help here for all those just like us already in jail and those soon headed there
And after November 30 if nothing does happen most likely I would like to say I hope you all do remember and then reward those who should be rewarded and as they have been in recent elections
I am assuming you of course …asked ??…why your name is gone down below and they are just getting right on adding it back up ? Right???
Whew….I am relieved of course ??
Hahaha I guess as its appropriate to maybe shed some light for my suspicious nature ?… Not that going to jail as an innocent man …already and being bankrupted with it would not make any one suspicious in the future …but ……and as a way to put it out there… I guess… sure why not
Most of course don’t understand what I and others have been up against? What the other side does……openly in fact…to try and shut us up
Yes I am sure most would question how it could happen in a country like canada As some may know… Sept 4 2008 I was politically assassinated with some old two sentence comment out of hundreds in the complete comment …taken out of context
Something not even said by me …
The lines above …??
”””” you cops are on borrowed time as far as being the enforcers of bad laws and being used as society’s GOONS. YOU soon will be seen as relevant again and as important as you used to be ,a pillar of the community. i realize how hard it would be to enforce stupid laws and i know i could not have thrown Rosa Parks from the bus. must be a redneck gene somewhere.
if we want to talk about laws,,why don’t you care that your country started an illegal war in Iraq,,arrest some one you law racists!!!! everyone knows but you guys whats going to happen and its way over due””””
The lines below it……???
””””half your country’s income squandered on the military every year and you have children going to bed hungry every night disgusting! the real truth about who did what and why will come out trust me.””””
and POOOOOF …….I was removed as a federal candidate for the greens
I was in at least 600 newspapers at last count that day TV…. Radio… the full meal deal… trust me….I was david ahenaques peer or some such drivel ….a step below hermen ghering I think
I repeated a comment someone in a 911 conspiracy movie had said and it even said that and even though the greens had even cleared me of the exact same comment 18 months earlier…… even confirmed by a local newspaper ….it was then trumpeted again nation wide as new news and I was dumped as a candidate
Yes as Elizabeth went about libelling me not once but twice 12 days later…see she had just recieved that floor crosser blair wilson and of course a cannabis activist no matter how hard working nor effective was now mere baggage ….I guess (I to this day dont know why she was complicate with harper maybe he was going to give her a senate seat like she thought dion was???)
But again what some dont know is that this let her out of her video taped promise to bring up cannabis in the TV Debates That was if me and my groups some how raised a big enough stink and got her in the TV Debates…..(another story)
But what most don’t also understand…. is that while all this was taking place something was taking over our phones and internet….both my wifes and mine that day
Typing backwards and in other languages…mine flashed ***QUIT**** in huge letters…and they did it all by themselves
Two computer shops have since asked jokingly if I was attacked by the FBI …etc… as they of course cant fix em
Suffice to say I have had two police forces here at a time many times shaking me down here for my political work it goes with out question
Even people that stood up for me on line that night were met on the highway 2 hours later …coincidently….. and searched and charged…. yes with even 3 cruisers in the middle of Alberta no where land ….
Some are naive and don’t connect dots but I have so many dots even the blind could see the image its so pronounce …… if they ever bothered to actually looked
I am not by any stretch of the imagination surprised by much any more
As the dust settled and we regained our phones etc I did as I did in the financial world and spent a very long time investigating and searching
At the end of the tunnel I determined and proved with saved web pages that my attacker only had two friends or connections …only two One was the man I used as I brought the green party out of the closet about cannabis on their biggest all time blogs as we came to see that we should yes re legalize cannabis and as they announced Oct 11 2007
He … a former conservative candidate …owned Blogging Tories web site where I had spent years fighting them as we educated their members and changed their minds and they came around to thinking decriminalizing cannabis was the right answer …. even against the site owners political wishes…Yes we can say I was a burr in his saddle etc
Th second name was and is prime minister of this country
shavluk.com has the page by the way
I could and should write a book Police have waited for me at the end of the road here and given me a ticket for going through a stop sign on a street with no stop sign…I kid you not…I had announced I would go into court and file this or that and I guess they thought a delay would hurt me??? They even wrote down it happened in a different city and street
I was carrying a concealed camera and said so later….they didnt show up in court and had been successful delaying me and costing me two days pay to fight it
Not sure even how many attacks I have officially taken now any more but the only shake down that bothered me was when my youngest son sitting inside using our video surveilence system was the only thing that freed me after we watched them drag the scent dog by a chain to my compounds gate and then start to charge me for stealing gas
I explained we had not even been there all day as we had spent 8 hours at the local polls working as a volunteer for the ndp and they could confirm it quickly if they cared
But in the end it was only when I pointed out that all they had already done was recorded by my son up above them at that window
Thank god !
Again…. a day after I called jack Layton a coward and a hypocrite on the internet and resigned from them …..right after the 2006 Quebec City Convention….. the rcmp and delta police both screeched in here and shook us down and said I had threatened to cut up some ones child into little pieces !!!
Can you imagine ??? !!
When lawyers like kirk tousaw later checked the occurrence numbers given freely by two police departments did not even exist as I had already found out previously myself
I give all this…. so you Dan understand … I hope?
People have absolutely no clue … we live in a cesspool of corruption and greed in a lot of ways and the forces against this type of answer to solve this issue would sooner shoot people like me than have people wake up and demand the sane answer
If you think it sounds crazy …?? Try to live it as your wife is crying in fear after some attacks Sir
The rcmp would be nothing without the drug trade lets face it and were built with prohibition in the first place
I make absolutely no bones about my openness and candour and challenge anyone to make me prove any of it…!! GLADLY
Sadly I know no one cares unless it happens to some one they know
I get nothing from doing this except the thought that maybe some Canadians will start to wake up and maybe get informed and realize they are creating life long struggles for local children who are just unlucky enough to be the latest one holding a harmless joint of a plant that is not poison nor even harmful and that some person has determined they must be ruined for it and destroyed because they just happen to have gotten caught
And yet Presidents of the USA who have done the same exact thing and are just excused after the fact and then just use that statement to make jokes at dinner parties
”””I didn’t inhale hahhahhaha”””….. Sorry you would not inhale for a bit longer if you said that in my face and if I had any say in the matter ….hypocrite !
Sorry to any offended by my style ….soon enough I am sure we all can just go back to sleep as the liberals will I am sure determine that this issue is just too political and they of course cant deal with political issues…. I mean come on eh….what do you think they are???
I am glad to see you back Dan…..
I am saddened this issue does not get huge enough numbers to convince liberals to stop being cowards as the whole country now wishes they would and wake up
I will be also saddened when this glimmer of hope is over and forgotten like so many other times
Relax, Mr SHAVLUK… as I’ve said to my real boss on many an occasion… “Don’t pay the ransom… I escaped!!!” :-)
Man oh man… a guy can’t even work outta town for a few days without the sky falling :-)
Professional police agencies do NOT muzzle independent thought… at least not since a certain Liberal Prime Minister (PET) enshrined freedom of speech within our Charter… we most definitely live in the BEST country in this world, folks!!!
I believe I’ve made my personal position on this issue abundantly clear within my two previous posts.. very pleased to see new perspectives joining this discussion. I look forward to continued lively debate on this issue. I’ve had MY say… we need to hear from many others on this topic.
As I mentioned earlier, the economic implications of legalization & regulation of cannabis are, quite frankly, difficult to fully appreciate. One interesting thought would be to dedicate the first profits to addressing our First Nations’ infrastructure issues country-wide… given that it was the Kelowna Accord that first went “up in smoke” when the Conservatives won their first minority government.
To those who have brought up claims that cannabis is a cause of schizophrenia, the evidence tends to refute those claims.
Over the last 20 years, there has been a steady, slow decline in schizophrenia rates in Britain, while in the same period there has been a steady increase in cannabis use.
I have seen a number of (government funded) studies that attempted to infer causality from associational statistics. Karl Pearson, the father of statistical mathematics, would have flunked everybody who makes that mistake. As an example, consider the fact that every morning, just before the sun rises, the cock crows. Based upon the perfect association and the time relationship of the events, would you infer that the rooster crow causes the sun to rise? Such inference errors are very common in medical literature.
Correct causal inference generally requires very carefully designed experiments and the use of Bayesian statistical methods. When proper statistical methods are brought to bear, it is consistently found that cannabis use is unlikely to *cause* schizophrenia.
On the other hand, alcohol use is behind a huge fraction of mental health problems, yet we do not interfere with individual choice.
Liberals should support this resolution because to do otherwise perpetuates the racist and religious prejudices that historians tell us gave rise to cannabis prohibition in the first place.
Finally, I do think the Party of Laurier should consider the fact that Laurier opposed alcohol prohibition, based both on liberal principles and on the anticipated rise in organized crime. Lsurier was right, and exactly the same reasoning applies to the equally foolish prohibition against cannabis.
Interesting article on drug legalization in Portugal and Netherlands. Here is one quote:
“Portugal decriminalized possession of all drugs in 2001. The outcome, after nearly a decade, according to a study published in the November issue of the British Journal of Criminology: less teen drug use, fewer HIV infections, fewer AIDS cases and more drugs seized by law enforcement. Adult drug use rates did slightly increase — but this increase was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug policies. The use of drugs by injection declined.”
The thing I love about this policy is how the revenue it generates enable us to cut taxes for the poor, increase social spending and reduce the deficit all at the same time. This is a big winner.
Anyone but me notice Dan Mulligans post now says this…..
……..”"”said on Nov 14, 2011 at 8:27 pm “”"
There is no “said” talking any where here Dan Mulligan’s name is now removed Mr 28 years in policing
Some sort of change of mind???
Police Union?
You betcha !!! I would guess that or some small slight pension cheque slip ups more likely
Dont forget who butters your bread !!! I am sure was tossed around
Some one applied a little pressure like I know they can and poof now no danny boy here on the record any more
Hahhaha…I again say I have seen it all before
The powers against human rights and freedom are very powerful
They can spend millions openly as graft and corruption in their riding pretending G 8 yet the sheeple do nothing as the media is owned and silenced and House is coming on hahhaha
Right now they are telling you the “”occupy movement “” is over and had their say even though they ignored them unless some one died in a tent
As I say I am not very hopeful these days as I am pretty sure the liberals dont actually want to win if it means being different than what they were in the past ….game players
Its a sad day for canada ……please have a look and see that dan has been muzzled obviously
I cant just leave it with that post on top as it is not reflective of most of the resolution
So I will say more
Now not that I think it killed him… I know it didnt ……as I did a 40 day fast myself on only water
I know what killed him….again cause I have been there Sitting and waiting for jail killed him and his heart Dont doubt for one second How will my kids adjust Who will see to their needs Who will feed the dog Where will your stuff go….????
Thousands of stressfully thoughts involved before you even get to the real so called punishment
Its scary if you have never been
Not if you have
A moment of reflection please canada…see the fruits of your ignorance and think of his children and grand children
How do we sell legalizing recreational drug? Which ones? We back that up with the toughess, set of laws on the books. No get out of jail cards, for drug dealers, importers, etc. Any thing not under the recreational category goes to the addiction side. Perscription drugs.
How, would we as the LPC pitch to the public making drug addition a disease to be treated instead of a prision term? How, would we house, feed, cloth these people. How do you put a value on hte non-committing of a crime?
How could we attack (we don’t want to be put on the defensive here) the HARPERMENT of CANADA’s big dumb dork approch to the drug problem?
Quote: “How, would we as the LPC pitch to the public making drug addition a disease to be treated instead of a prision term? How, would we house, feed, cloth these people. How do you put a value on hte non-committing of a crime?”
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. THIS is the discussion we need to bring to the convention.
Can you imagine the effect of putting the $$$ Harper is going to spend on prisons and enforcement into TREATMENT and getting addicts off hard drugs?
@ Richard… making the pitch for legalization and treatment.
This is how I would word.
1) Acknowledge that the individual is PERSONALLY responsible for their actions. This will please BLUE types and some Liberals.
2) Acknowledge that society has a SOCIAL responsibility to help those who have become addicts get treatment, not judgement.
This does two things as I highlighted.
It acknowledge personal actions in life are ones own. They choose to do drugs. They must confront that choice that led them to addiction.
It acknowledges that even if one is responsible for ones actions… that DOES NOT allow society to judge and condemn them to a prison cell…. which solves nothing.
In short…
Responsibility… and care… are the tone the legislation should set.
Every Canadian will support such legislation. It is the BALANCED approach… the Liberal way.
Sorry sonny you didnt hit any nerves at all I make all my own payments and your opinion is just that To do what I do shows I have skin thicker than some peoples brains
Guess what sonny 100 % …yes catch that 100 % of any like me have been get this ..you ready for it ??….yes sonny we were all KIDS at one point too
Did you read what I said about the suicide statistics with cannabis using males adolescents??
We will leave it at you confused and thinking years in means absolutely anything Years in is irrelevant if its for the wrong reasons and I have seen some couple who should have divorced as their cowardice was copied by their children
Thank goodness we only need 37 % to govern as harpercrite has shown us its obvious we wont please religious zealots with this policy nor their religious comic book heros
If you are including cannabis users in your little self deduced formula of yours yes I disagree with you and say even if you were correct..which you are not…the current cowardly policy of the liberals is not the answer And yours is a non answer
We have enough of those
Maybe you should work at getting prohibition extended to include divorce?? Then you can see real damage to kids in some cases
Sorry but not all people who experiment are evil or sick nor flawed They are human beings…human be ings…get me?
Oh and thank you too….I hope you dont take more of what I have tried to say …wrong so I will just stop saying to you just to lessen that chance
I understand I dont reach all…I am not perfect and have absolutely no intention to be so
Quote: “Maybe you should work at getting prohibition extended to include divorce??”
How do you come up with this? Can you not read. I am FOR the DECRIMINALIZATION of marijuana.
How did you deduce I want to prohibit divorce? I am for LESS interference in peoples lives, not more. I would like to see a VOLUNTARY clinic for distribution of harder drugs… but ONLY if we actually SUPPORT people to kick their addictions with REAL detox and life enhancing rehabilitation.
Quote: “I hadnt even mentioned the number one cause of deaths of young men outside of accidents is actually suicide…yet… negligible numbers to those young men who have tried cannabis….bizarre eh?”
Yes… I have now read it. So… the answer to suicide is marijuana? Is this your personal opinion. If I ever feel down.. I should NUMB myself instead of searching for the ROOT cause of my depression and FACING THE TRUTH of my life?
If you need to compare SUICIDE deaths to cannabis use in order to justify it… I think that alone speaks VOLUMES as to the psychology of users.
I am sorry your use has left a black mark on your life in preventing you to get jobs. That is truly a shame. I would also advocate with decriminalization that all former convictions for what is now illegal, can apply for a review and pardon.
Does that sit ok with you “sonny?”
I just advocated the removal of BOTH cannabis illegality and former convictions for crimes that are now legal.
Look. It seems you have a problem with “rules” that you don’t want to follow. If someone believes there are such things as MORAL laws… that DOES NOT mean they should be enforced on other people. YOU have to choose your actions in life… and if MORAL LAW/KARMA happens to deal you a bad hand… I don’t need to force anyone to believe what I do about morality.
I don’t want this thread hijacked on a moral discussion about drug use. Each will have their own personal opinion on whether drugs are “good” for society to be exposed to.
So… let’s keep the FOCUS on not judging people for the failings or recreation… however you wish to interpret it… and create a society where people are free to live as they wish AND have resources to turn to if addiction becomes a real problem.
Quote: “Oh and thank you too….I hope you dont take more of what I have tried to say …wrong so I will just stop saying to you just to lessen that chance”
Wrong or right… I am just trying to UNDERSTAND what you are saying. The tone is one of self-righteous, elder, “no one can tell me what I can or cannot do with my life”… sprinkled with rambling personal stump speech quotes and finishes with a condemnation of anyone (such as myself) who might suggest a deeper psychological issue behind drug use which… EVERY statistic will show is in the majority of cases to be precisely that… a coping mechanism.
Then again… that sounds like a lot of pot smokers I have met in my life. Pot DOES affect your brain. In fact… it just might make you
“Teenagers who start smoking marijuana before the age of sixteen are four times more likely to become schizophrenic. That’s the startling conclusion of some of the world’s top schizophrenia experts, whose research is featured in the new documentary The Downside of High.”
So… go right ahead. I want you to be FREE to choose to put whatever you want in your body. The information is out there. I don’t need the government to impose any rules on anybody… God/karma seems a pretty good judge and jury for most people. If you continue to ignore the laws that govern your own health and vitality… that is your choice.
No one… no one… is going to advocate cannabis use is akin to good exercise, good food, and a sound mind.
As for being perfect… we were born so… and only through man’s choice, does he fall from the divine creature he was meant to be.
Again… I am FOR legalizing marijuana and clinical access and treatment for harder drugs. If you would stop hitting that bong just once… you might realize I am ON YOUR SIDE!
First off I should apologize for my tone towards you
You of course are just completely unaware of lots of things I am dealing with right now and have dealt with I went to jail and didnt see my kids as an innocent man framed for traficking for 8 grams of cannabis… twenty years ago just for in my opinion …talking about police murdering Saskatchewan First Nations peoples by leaving them out of town to freeze to death (Pre Stonechild case)
I am not your enemy nor you mine But I tell you point blank I have spent 21 years knowing this issue inside and out and doing the necessary research to back up my claims and spent the money to back up my efforts north american wide politically and as I have said been in every election I can here in canada
# 1 I am busy going bankrupt as the victim of two libels by elizabeth may and the soon dead green party that no reporter reports about…on purpose
elley may as I call her just friday sent me a letter saying they wont bankrupt me with all the legal fees they promised to do after I sued for libel if I take down all my you tube videos etc showing her lies and libels……go see them please
She filed Sworn Court Affidavits proven in court as LIES and right now has a lie on her webpage we are probably going to sue her again for She got caught in court lying and saying they didnt alter a Press Release Libelling me and I pointed out from the stand she forgot to take down her facebook one that still had the original Libel and made her look like the LIAR I know she is
She called the police the day after I announced I myself would run against her in election and said I threatened to kill her or harm her Had that been me according to police I would have been jailed They told me she is someone and I am not and that she has political pull high up trying to help silence me because of the cannabis issue
I have tons video recorded ..even court rooms and judges that some day will expose some who should be exposed
There are many you tube videos explaining more.
And as she is spending members money and not her own and as she has the help of the harpercrites to destroy me because of the noted fear they have of my success I know its going to only get much uglier as I probably end up back in jail for trying to re clear my very good name
# 2 I dont use a bong nor am I a cheeseburger addict I was only being dramatic and making a point and adding what I thought was humour I had never even tried cannabis until I was 27 with 7 and 6 year old children and I must say it saved my life by making me aware I had one
# 3 There is no proof about what you say about mental illness and cannabis and I of course must burst your bubbles because to us the issue as I say is one of life and death and certainly not about taking legal toxic harmful synthetic drugs instead of natural non toxic illegal ones Because some one made them illegal to hurt mexican immigration does not mean they are harmful or even wrong to use….read the bible some know it was used then
“”"”"For example, authors of a 2009 study published in Schizophrenia Research said definitively that increased cannabis use by the public has not been followed by a proportional rise in diagnoses of schizophrenia or psychosis. Investigators at the Keele University Medical School in Britain compared trends in marijuana use and incidences of schizophrenia in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005. Researchers reported that the “incidence and prevalence of schizophrenia and psychoses were either stable or declining” during this period, even the use of cannabis among the general population was rising.”"”"”
# 4 I appreciate your participation here but I will not stand idly by well what I consider lies are being spread….show us the bodies Sir…show us the proof of what you say…I say it is B S and stand with SCIENCE not a bible or some sick twisted bullying nature that dislikes things they know nothing about
Lies are no reason to think others have any rights to destroy others lives over personal choice
But yes lets get back to what this is about helping liberals find answers and then guts shall we?
I know I am probably just wasting my time because I know how much money is made jailing people and destroying them
They say it costs $88,000 a year for Provincial jail and $109,000 a year for Federal time….I laugh and said in elections why would you do that instead of maybe $10,000 a year for affordable housing or $10,000 for an education ???……I know why now….many makes their livelihoods by destroying lives and that is a legitimate business to what ? at least 36 % of voters right?
DISGUSTING I KNOW Please lets all try to get a bit more educated before we blow this chance that should of course be done as is known to any sane reasonable person
To some of you I missed….thank you for again your sane and rational views
And ….WOW
Oh my …..Curtis Carlson What glib back ground do you come from?
For the sake of all this I will just maybe put a disclaimer here and say you must mean heroin or crystal meth or cocaine ??? Of the illegal ones …and alcohol fat and sugar of the legal?
Yes???
If you want me to think to add cannabis??
Hahhaha ….well sorry Are you going to tell us willy nelson smokes cannabis because he has issues about how he was raised?
I am of course sorry to have to say this but I disagree with your comments then
To me its like saying I eat cheeseburgers cause my parents divorced and I am an addict?
Don’t get me wrong …nothing kills more people than cheeseburgers in this country don’t forget …heart disease cancer stroke you name it…all cheeseburger related if the truth be told but I eat cheeseburgers because I love them Some can call it an addiction ……wont change a thing …I wont shed a mere tear You can only be called an addict when you are trying to quit something and cant…not when others bibles tell them so and they call you one
Quit?
I am not and have absolutely no intention to do so Even in jail guards make sure you never run out …see as an illegal substance everyone knows anyone can make money on it Its not rocket science I am sure if cheeseburgers become prohibited and we get the MEA instead of the DEA many will be looking at a long stretch in that friendly penal system
I dispute your thinking and point out that hundreds of things you may not realize are actually drugs in some definition based on peoples use of them
Anyone pretending people like Louis Armstrong or Mark Twain used cannabis because they had issues is missing the obvious
Michael Phelps ….You remember him?
He is the fellow they lambasted in the media after it was discovered he was a pothead and they publicised pictures of him with a bong ??
He was in the Athens and Beijing Olympics and became the most successful athlete at THOSE OLYMPICS !! with a total of 16 medals He is one medal away from being the most successful Olympian of all time !!
In two Olympics ONLY he has twice equalled the record eight medals of any type at a single Olympics achieved by Soviet gymnast Alexander Dityatin at the 1980 Moscow Summer Games. His five golds in individual events tied the single Games record set by compatriot Eric Heiden in the 1980 Winter Olympics and equaled by Vitaly Scherbo at the 1992 Summer Games. Phelps holds the record for the most gold medals EVER won in a single Olympics; his eight at the 2008 Beijing Games surpassed American swimmer Mark Spitz’s seven-gold performance at Munich in 1972. Phelps’ Olympic medal total is second only to the 18 Soviet gymnast Larisa Latynina won over three Olympics, including nine gold. Furthermore, he holds the all-time record for most individual gold Olympic medals, at nine.
And some would think smoking cannabis to be like smoking tobacco on the lungs as the fake science would have you believe when in fact the opposite is obviously true
How about Dan Aykrod … Carl Sagan …. Pierre Burton … Pierre Trudeau … Morgan Freeman … Michael Bloomberg the mayor of new york … Ted Turner … Woody Harroldson … Arnold Schwarzenegger …. Stephen King…. William F. Buckley
The list could go for miles
You ever hear of Sir Richard Branson??
How about the richest human on the planet Bill Gates
You going to tell us he is a failure?
I am sorry I needed to reply to the tone your posts sets
“”"The answer, says pollster Frank Graves, is complicated but lies partly with a politically-shrewd government appealing to its base and to an aging population that craves moral certainty. And, unlike the majority of young Canadians, they vote.
“They tend to be anti-intellectual, anti-science and with little interest in debating the evidence or listening to expert opinion,” says Graves. “Many simply want people who do bad things to be severely punished whether it makes streets safer or not.”
Please people quit the boogy man stories and wise up you are wasting 30 % of all your taxes chasing someone’s grandchildren …….for what??..their health ???
I hope the liberals are as smart as I think they are…..for all our sakes
Logic. Sugar/fat (i.e. cheeseburgers) and drugs. Fail… Paremindies 101 for not comparing like to like.
I can’t even tell if you disagree with me. I support legalization of marijuana so the rant on the number of people in high profile that use was pointless and redundant.
As for harder drugs… a clinic is what I advise, not outright selling. Use a little common sense.
As for your stellar individuals on pot who are not coping with the ‘bogey man’ of mental illness… fine. Again… let’s compare like to like as LOGIC dictates for accurate reasoning and deductions.
“The statistics on teen depression are sobering. Studies indicate that one in five children have some sort of mental, behavioral, or emotional problem, and that one in ten may have a serious emotional problem. Among adolescents, one in eight may suffer from depression. Of all these children and teens struggling with emotional and behavioral problems, a mere 30% receive any sort of intervention or treatment. The other 70% simply struggle through the pain of mental illness or emotional turmoil, doing their best to make it to adulthood.” - http://www.about-teen-depression.com/depression-statistics.html
Gee. I wonder how kids cope? Cheeseburgers!!! Yah… that must be it.
Dude… if you want to hit the bong.. I ain’t stopping you. So chill.
If YOU feel the need to compare your marijuana use to the “stars”… go right ahead. But many studies show those people are also of the most messed up and depressed type as well.
I have never met a pothead… that did not have some problem in life their were coping for. My totally biased opinion and in a free country, I can express it. Glad you expressed yours… now to each there own.
As for where I come from?
Parents married 40+ years. All in my family, both sides, are still married. Out of 14 of 16 family and direct relatives… all still married. Many kids. No trouble with drugs, not a one. NONE are religious except one side of the family and that accounts for 3 couples. I myself believe in God… the concept… and subscribe to no particular religion but I do have my influences… Islam, Sikhism, Taoism and Buddhism. No suicides in the family. No depression other than normal life trials and tribulations. Only a few smokers and most of them are quitting.
You can keep your hollywood and corporate tycon fellow bong hitters as mentors and idols… I’ll keep my family thank you.
To quote shakespeare… “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
If I have triggered latent ire at MORAL questioning of your habits… those are issues YOU have to deal with… not me. We all go back to the same place… you with your karma… me with mine.
I can see your passion for doing something about drugs and our kids. This is a multifaceted problem with no easy solution.
First… we cant solve any problem without knowing the facts. If you want to talk of denial, here is the biggest river in Egypt you will find…
Our government is in the drug trade. Maybe not Canada, but I bet if you look hard enough, you will find it.
THE CIA DRUG DEALERS BUSTED, FINALLY. Michael Ruppert
This is reality folks. The “war on drugs” is a sham. It is a business and the USA and CIA are the owners and operators.
That is the root, now what about the branches.
There is a major problem at home. Divorce… has destroyed the family. There is ZERO stability in many kids lives. Church… was a community bond of all classes and types. I am not advocating religion although I do personally believe in God, but the faith of the religious minded community engendered knowledge of and concern for the welfare of Dick and Jane, no matter whose kids they were. Religion also advocates a role for mother and father, husband and wife, as a team, as partners, in raising children. Mom… was at home, or at least she was when I was growing up. Who was the first person I could turn to with a problem? Mom and Dad. Where is that support now? Both parents work… so Facebook friends and TV become the substitute. This too cannot be fixed overnight, but secular and feminist ideology suggests, “the family” is a model for society that is obsolete and oppressive. Maybe we should instead ask our kids… if they would like BOTH Mom and Dad in their lives and ONE parent at home, usually the mother, for guidance and support.
Drugs… are a pain killer. Drugs… numb the senses. Drugs… take you away from life and make you forget the pain and hurt and fear and depression.
Drugs… are what children are using in record numbers to NUMB THEMSELVES to society. To FEEL NOTHING for life or for their own soul.
You want to get kids off drugs?
Make it “uncool” by making it legal and affordable. The whole point of doing drugs is the psychological stimulus of belonging to the in crowd, to people who accept you. If your parents don’t, who are you going to turn to?
Make it cheap, clean and easy to access… and the addicted WILL NOT commit crimes. This has been proven with study after study
That said… the Vancouver Police have said the free needle clinic has only made things worse in the downtown core. I believe, that is because while there is emphasis on helping addicts get clean, there is no FORCED program of detox and social support.
I think we need to “get tough”… not with incarceration and jail terms as the Cons would believe… but with money spent on a TRUE detox and rehabilitation program. Not some volunteer basis respecting the ‘rights’ of the individual. Drug addiction… is a SOCIAL PROBLEM, not an individual one. We ALL suffer because of it, so it is up to society, not the individual who has clearly failed to look out for themselves, to get clean and back on their feet.
No addict… wants to be an addict. Why ask them if they would “like” to get clean and leave it up to them? If an addict knows they will get the support they need… get clean… and have the support to re-integrate their lives into society… they will line up. As it is, these voluntary clinics are underfunded and still socially looked down upon. If people would just put away THEIR moral judgements of such people and realize they need HELP… we could do a lot I think with a country wide program of detox and rehabilitation.
I understand the need for an addict to “buy in” to his own recovery… but if it is ALWAYS left up to him or her… they will ultimately fail.
Addicts… need the tough love of a parent, not a jail cell.
Fund a program that would provide drugs at minimal cost, this should NOT be free, and you will begin to remove the cancer at its source.
Preventing kids from getting into drugs… will be harder. Even with low fee clinics, most normal kids may still opt for street sellers. But with legalization, it will no longer be behind closed doors and in back alleys. It will be open and both the public and parents will be aware of what is going on.
Alcohol… was once illegal and look at the mess (and the profit) it created.
I think it is high time (pun intended) to let adults decide for themselves what they wish to put into their bodies or not.
Over time… drugs will remain a problem, much like alcoholism. But at least… there can be awareness and programs to help just like with alcoholism.
Right now… under the Cons… all our kids are going to receive is a jail cell and a criminal record for simply trying to fit in and numb the pain of broken homes and strained parental relations.
This problem… starts at home… and it is high time adults started realizing that no matter how “good” they think they have been as a parent, if your kid is into drugs, it is because they are MISSING something at home.
I never for even one second considered taking drugs. That was because the love of my parents was always there, anytime, day or night, to talk about anything.
If your kid is not talking to you… THAT IS A GLARING SIGN something is wrong at home.
If families would SLOW DOWN… take the TV out of the kitchen… and eat ONE MEAL A DAY together… AS A FAMILY… statistics have shown drug and teen sex rates drop like a stone.
The government can’t mandate individuals to become better parents and families… but if we don’t look at our so called “modern and progressive” secular society of distraction, debt, and depression… nothing we do… will save our kids from drugs.
If your kid is doing drugs… look in the mirror. Denial… at its most potent and painful.
I have a feeling I will get a lot of flack for saying that… but the truth was never a sweet pill to swallow. Just as Socrates.
@shavluk I am wondering, and I am directing this at you because you are one of the most vocal on this issue, so your opinions and knowledge carry some weight with how I perceive the righteousness of this issue, if you could inform me of the following. {{ Thank you L Hough :
I will try and please excuse how I do so with the copy and paste of your post here ( I am one of the many founders of the Marijuana Party and have spent as I say over 20 years attempting to do what I am attempting to do here so yes thank you for even asking) ( if we do not ask we will never know the truth and continue the harm because of that }}
1. – unlike alcohol, I understand growing cannabis is fairly straightforward (or perhaps even just not so complicated), so how are we to regulate the sale and purchase of a government endorsed product?
{{{{{{{ Like any other “legal” industry We set rules …boundaries and goals …we establish a level playing field and set parameters of production
The wine model or alcohol model is a comparison ……we are all free now to make our own at home yet the vast majority do not bother to do so and rightly so as commercial enterprise is far and away more qualified to do it more consistently and for lower costs with economies of scale
Over time I believe most would not bother trying to grow it themselves with commercial strains readily available for reasonable dollars at liquor stores or even coffee shops
Imagine though for a second if alcohol was further taxed with these huge SIN TAX’S as suggested by some with cannabis? Of course with the resulting manufactured pricing and no competition an underground economy would of course spring up again to take advantage …it already happened remember?
We need to remember to not slap on “moral taxation” if we are serious about removing machine guns and crime from the equation and letting markets adjust themselves
Unlike what we did with alcohol in the 30’s though… I would not like to now just reward all the criminals who are breaking the law now and allow them the licenses to produce it….please… no new Bronfman’s…. emerging after all our efforts did your work for you… I would say
( Bikers cut the locks off and broke in here with masks and threatened to cut my head off over my political efforts and I do not wish to now see them now then just given these licenses whom ever would of course need)
I would start “” grower coops “” groups of growers like in the tobacco industry and then let the market forces that would emerge do so…. As they are priced like any other commodity
Not many would like to see the government own the production and it isn’t about any other reason except the huge profits they want to make themselves …so of course we need to select producers
Bare in mind though that a transition would take place as we change over and a few bumps would still emerge but by and large within a year I would say it would be like it was always still legal as no criminals are selling booze they made any more are they? And we know why?…because they can not compete and if they can they are already part of a legitimate alcohol business I am sure (actually they are)
Look at wineries and “on site” beer brewers for a few hints of how we should do it though }}}}}}
2. – are there detectable signs of impairment or does impairment even happen while making use of cannabis recreationally?
{{{{{ This depends on a lot of variables obviously like with any substance ….but you touch on a very important point !!!
WE MUST ADDRESS “”IMPAIRMENT”” first and foremost
and police are trained to ALREADY do so but as I said about recent moves to have swabs done and blood or urine taken ( huge dollars to pharmaceutical companies needlessly and huge costs housing billions of samples over time…who will pay those bills??)
People need to understand that already some elderly are impaired by LEGAL pharmaceuticals on our roads and in one case where a 77 year old pilot flew his airplane into a Richmond BC high rise only going to get much much worse until we do address “ impairment “ ….of any kind I DO NOT ENDORSE CHEMICAL EXPLOITATION OR REPLACEMENT OF TRAINED POLICE AND THEIR ROLES
But lets face it when Raheem Jaffer the conservative MP was caught flying through a town speed driving …..drunk and pockets containing cocaine a little while ago …it took 5 days to come out in media and he got a mere $500 dollar tax deductible fine in the end !!!!
They could have placed the cocaine in a bag they already carry and in mere minutes identifed it as cocaine
Sadly ….some are always much much much more equal than others are they not ??? !
Had that happened to me or a liberal …..jail time would be of course ….needed !!!!! }}}}}}}} Radar and impairment dedectors seatbelts
I often tell the story of this… There used to be 40,000 people found impaled on their steering columns after car accidents every year 7 years in court against huge odds resulting in one thing only Auto companies of course fought this for 7 years in court and explained how many many people would be put out of work if they needed to comply with this What was it that resulted?
SEATBELTS
Lets face it …since the 80’s even the technology to stop any head on collisions has existed… technology to not let cars even start with alcohol in them has already existed for 20 years !!!
Who are we again kidding ??
Radar …for 50 dollars and other cheap remedies are being completely ignored with the help of politicians wilfully ignorant on purpose }}}}
3. – if impairment does occur is there a simple roadside test to indicate impairment?
{{{{ Yes….and its been used for decades….it starts with a policeman’s eyes but has many parts to it…..I do not endorse billions of tax dollars needlessly spent to pharmaceutical companies as they bribe MP’S to provide chemical tests we do not actually need !! }}}}
4. – can it impair a users ability to perform certain jobs and functions?
{{{{ I should point out that like with alcohol or even other things like food even…each individual is different and long term use produces some who now are not impaired with more alcohol ….for example… than the average person Cannabis is the same I know many who get no impairment but do get pain relief for example
I of course am not trying to get a bunch of impaired people on the roads…hell…they are already there and just not reported over financial reasons to pharmaceutical companies if the truth be told
We do not talk about car accidents over legal pharmaceuticals causing impairment We do not talk about natural impairment as truckers break rules with log books and cause accidents by not sleeping We do not talk about impairment in ones own abilities and confidence while driving either }}}}}
By the way our armed forces pilots are given Speed and the USA ones who killed 4 of our first 5 canadian service men killed in afganistan …..were all on SPEED !!!!
Anything can impair some one …….its the signs of impairment that are always always the same no matter what the substance or even an allergy that caused any accident
Again Canadians are being bamboooozled with BS for chemical company profits ! }}}}}}
5. – would there be regulation of the quantity an individual could buy legally, and if so, would an underground market exist after this quantity is exceeded?
{{{{{{ I can tell you that again like alcohol some of us are using better brandy and whisky than some are on Chinese cooking wine out of a paper bag and always will
I can also tell you that there has always been superior cannabis …..properly weaned of chemical nutrients etc and properly cured …….and there has always been road kill type “”shwag”” cannabis …this wont change
Wine from your neighbour verses some highly crafted brew from some one well versed with experience will I dare say taste different
These stories that talk about higher THC concentrations this and that and killer weed ….hahhaha …..wow ( by the way the only cops to ever give this angel dust dusted pot story is my very own delta police force and they have lied …. As to this day under and after prodding …of course…. been forced to admit that they have never ever ever found any of this so called “ laced weed””
It just make me howl with laughter as they pretend something grown in the ground while hiding from law enforcement has some how procured resources to engineer super dope hahhahha
If anything like with prohibition and cocaine for example the resulting terror created by prohibition began this search for concentrated cocaine which is easier to smuggle etc and then crack was born…even crystal meth
It is the illegality that creates the wish to super concentrate drugs or as in alcohol production…profit
Sorry all that like with alcohol will happen after re legalization as some become connoisseurs and tinker with palates for dollars
Prohibition has created the demands for things like cannabis oil and even puddy ( hash) which is really just concentrated cannabis or more to the point the resin of cannabis
There has always been great cannabis and garbage cannabis just to be clear and probably always will be }}}}
6. – would the price point of regulated cannabis sales be an incentive to purchase from an underground market as opposed to the regulated market (given that a large amount of the price on cigarettes – and rightly so – is tax)?
{{{ OF COURSE….see above You do understand that not one politician ever campaigns to make bullets cost a thousand dollars each don’t you see ? Yes I would love that !! No one wants that right?……ol uncle sam would be here in a jiffy taking over real quick would he not?
Of course people being people will always try to circumvent laws or taxes and gain advantages……like harper with his private fleet of taxpayer funded jets deemed un expendable and necessary for every trip to the store hahhahhaha
I can tell you that native band cigarettes are because of what I said above …the results of stupidity and over the tipping point in taxation …plain and simple
But to be honest any educated people knows very full well that real producers of these cigarettes are actually involved and been given slaps on the wrist when finally exposed …now they sell them the equipment to just make and package them …LOL }}}
7. – would it have any perceived impact on our border crossings with the U.S., and our intent to make border crossings easier for vehicles and pedestrians who commonly travel back and forth between Canada and the U.S.?
{{{{ What like the Americans have now done with an entrance fee??? You may be surprised to find that it will be Americans who probably re legalize cannabis before us actually as 13 states or so already have re legalized medicinal cannabis and many have it on the next elections ballots
Yes some will of course ….because of stupid laws still some where else……. always try to exploit markets…..look what the USA does to Cuba as they try to instil their morals and business models there….hmmmm??
The CIA ….has since it was created …..tried to do just as you speak as they topple countries and leaders simply to take what they want…as in oil for example
Do you know the real reason things like cannabis and cocaine for example are illegal in the USA?
Because these didn’t grow naturally in the USA and the USA isn’t the biggest producer nor do they have the market cornered already
And obviously because if you use cannabis you wont go blindly die needlessly in one of their oil wars so your parents get a flag to put at your dinner seat to represent you ….. at every future Xmas or important family meeting Sorry if its about quick trips to sprawlmart as you then kill more Canadian manufacturing jobs with Chinese slave produced goods you must have to have … yes…. maybe leave 10 minutes earlier so they can strip search you faster for things they don’t produce and don’t like and you in your needs to hurt Canadian manufacturers must save pennies on What ever happened to the “”Evil Communist Empire “” hmmmmmmmmmmmm???
One should also point out again !!!…….that no government has ever ever sold more cocaine that the USA government !!! Iran Contra anyone?
So lets please just deal with reality and not boogymen
What about all the ones who will come here escaping persecution like jews did ….like gays do…… like etc etc etc }}}}}
8. – would it have any impact on the undefended border between ourselves and the U.S.?
Wow Ok …if that is an undefended border what is a defended one? One that’s completely sealed …? Hmmm?…What ?
You ever notice how easily raw logs go across or oil ??
Why?? …I think most know why }}}}}
I realize you may not have answers to all of these questions, so anyone who does have any input, please feel free to chime in. Thanks {{{ actually I do have answers to all of your questions …thanks
I hope many others do as well and that’s why I bother Soon I am sure we can all just forget it as the liberals cower out in fear…as they become even more irrelevant and extinct …. Yes and as more innocent women are then shot needlessly on Boxing day in a shoot out for turf as has already happened here in BC …sure….I know it sadly …oh well I cant stop trying no matter how much stupidity I find
Good luck all …..its too bad there is not a real common sense political party with people placed before corporate profit…it really is }}}
The black ops funded by the drug profits… the ‘liquidity’ of corporations and banks… ALL of it comes from the illegal CORPORATE drug trade.
The Taliban reduced opium production by 95%.
The USA took over… and it is now producing more opium and breaking records in production EVERY YEAR!
Yea.. just a co-winky-dink.
There should be mandated government clinics… like a drug store. Full information given, programs to combat addiction (for those that have an addictive personality, yes, there is a psychological component to drug use).
Take away the PROFIT… and the crime will disappear.
And you get to strike a revenge blow to the very first corporate hegemony on the planet after oil… DuPont and plastics. (For which all plastics can come from hemp by the way).
Seriously… just legalize this stuff. I don’t use it. I think its just stupid… but the criminalization of a habit that is HUMAN (escapism, mental coping, etc)… is beyond ridiculous.
I am wondering, and I am directing this at you because you are one of the most vocal on this issue, so your opinions and knowledge carry some weight with how I perceive the righteousness of this issue, if you could inform me of the following.
1. – unlike alcohol, I understand growing cannabis is fairly straightforward (or perhaps even just not so complicated), so how are we to regulate the sale and purchase of a government endorsed product?
2. – are there detectable signs of impairment or does impairment even happen while making use of cannabis recreationally?
3. – if impairment does occur is there a simple roadside test to indicate impairment?
4. – can it impair a users ability to perform certain jobs and functions?
5. – would there be regulation of the quantity an individual could buy legally, and if so, would an underground market exist after this quantity is exceeded?
6. – would the price point of regulated cannabis sales be an incentive to purchase from an underground market as opposed to the regulated market (given that a large amount of the price on cigarettes – and rightly so – is tax)?
7. – would it have any perceived impact on our border crossings with the U.S., and our intent to make border crossings easier for vehicles and pedestrians who commonly travel back and forth between Canada and the U.S.?
8. – would it have any impact on the undefended border between ourselves and the U.S.?
I realize you may not have answers to all of these questions, so anyone who does have any input, please feel free to chime in.
Thank you again Mr Mulligan you said most of what I would say already but the above comment demands attention here …no?
WOW I must say I get excited about our chances of actually waking up cowardly politicians ….yes ..thank you Linda…if we now have even invented reasons added to the standard “”What about the children”" technique …wow…we must be making strides and more importantly ….sense ….yes…so everything but the kitchen sink needs inserting now eh?…LOL
And the ol’ “”schizophrenia “” boogyman … out of the bag o tricks too eh?…haha….wow
No offence I hope taken here but people like you need exposing …and more importantly dispelling Yes maybe ruin the lives of 800,000 more legal canadian citizens so crime continues to manage the cannabis business here in canada …eh? Just peachy?
I should point out right off the hop though that the use of cannabis has increased over a thousand fold since the 50′s ….the rates for schizophrenia…..???…yes as I have said before there is no spike…no increase and what you say has been documented as crap
If anything those predisposed to the ailment are in fact helped by its use…please show real and credible links to prove these claims but be aware Linda that I dispelled every last argument and link showing them all linked to the DEA while bringing the green party out of the closet on this issue as well
Yes please Linda….show us the bodies I know dont exist
Keeping cannabis illegal has sure worked well so far to keep it away from kids …..hasnt it??
Tell any kid you can find to go get alcohol from any where but dad and see how it goes with government regulation controlling supply….hmmmm?
I am sorry but I must point out that if we ever did convince the liberals to find their guts and actually stand up and use this issue effecting over 3 million canadians…my experience and the attacks against me are completely convincing me that the harpercrits would be so scared of that thought …..that they would sign up on sites like this to try to tear apart support for these issues…. they know will kill them and their chances in the next election !!!!
I am sorry but people like Linda are not the liberals…??? we are trying to reach…..I am after ones that dont invent diseases like “”fetal marijuana syndrome”" knowing full well that the university of saskatchewan already released years ago that compounds in cannabis are used naturally in human bodies and that these compounds make subjects smarter and much more healthy in fact
Google it but please please please…..yes…add these so called studies you mention so that when I expose them for what I know they are many more umm…er…”” liberals “”…….wake up !!
My goodness we must scare the heck out of some !!!
I rest my case and say if we really want to decide who’s lives we ruin because of the kids who in reality use less of legal substances in countries that legalized …we better start reminding people about the real products for kids that need addressing like crystal meth …oops I mean Ritalin…all the doctors are flooding canada with that are so prevalent they are even showing up in our drinking water !!
When people like some here pipe up…well I am sorry but I know we are winning !!
For any that really want to know the truth please trust your own abilities to find the truth as with today’s technologies they can no longer hide the truth from you !!!
Please educate yourselves !! and lets scare the hell out of the harpercrites !!!!!!!!!!
Ms. SCHULTZ’ comments below are “Bang-on”… there is considerable scientific evidence that marihuana use by teenagers carries the increased risk of the development of schizophrenia… which is precisely why the legalization and strict regulation of this product is required ASAP.
Under NO circumstances should our party be perceived to be endorsing/advocating this product’s widespread use. With relatively rare, yet notable, exceptions (ie. glaucoma, anorexia, cancer, Alzheimer’s) this recreational drug poses health risks and thereby must be appropriately “policed” via regulation to ensure that every reasonable effort is made to restrict its access to individuals who have attained a minimum specified age (25 yrs?)… Will these measures prevent a teenager from gaining access to this product? Hell, no. But if it’s purchased legitimately through the local WCBO :-), as a parent, you will probably sleep better at night knowing that it hasn’t been “angel dusted” by the local street-level dealer who wants his customers buying his PCP.
Ms. SCHULTZ points out that… “Families in this country are looking for leadership that recognizes their responsibilities as the educators and nurturers of their children”… I couldn’t possibly agree more with this statement. It is our number one obligation as parents to ensure our children are provided with the utmost opportunity to be successful in ultimately attaining their dreams – whatever form those dreams take.
Legalization & regulation further ensures that our kids don’t arbitrarily become instant criminals for simple possession of a lousy joint!!! How many parents out there can speak to the results of having their kids’ aspirations for their futures completely shattered as a result of being labeled a criminal for “simple” possession of marihuana?? We need to hear from you people in this very important discussion, folks!
“There, but for the grace of God, go I”… in 1983, I was interviewed for my job in policing… one of the first questions posed by this professional interviewer dealt with my use of any drugs… upon my admission to minimal use of grass & hashish during my university years, I asked him point blank if this interview was now effectively “over”, to which he replied… “Mistakes I can live with – dishonesty is unacceptable”… the interview continued.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, this resolution ultimately requires PROFESSIONAL MANAGEMENT to properly address this issue to our fellow Canadians. In the interim, we need considerably more input into this very important discussion in an effort to raise its profile within our fast-approaching convention.
Families in this country are looking for leadership that recognizes their responsibilities as the educators and nurturers of their children. I know very few parents who want there children/teens to use marijuana. As for college students, the demands made on them re:studies,academics,trades,debt burdens should caution them about recreational use of marijuana which has an effect on IQ and performance on the job. What about the effect on writing exams? I would ask about the use of this drug on the job? Are we protecting the rights of using this on the job after a day’s use? What about liability for mistakes made from ‘cannabinoids” in the system after use. I understand they are unpredictable in their time of resurfacing.Fetal Marijuana Syndrome is another thing to think about? What about the link between schizophrenia and marijuana. http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html http://www.theweekly.com/news/2004/February/07/MDD_Drugs.html
SMART ON CRIME, I like that. This would be smart on crime.
I’ve read somewhere that 85% of the crime in the country is related to drugs. That most of the money that the crime organizations make are from drugs. So we need to look at who has an interest in keeping the status quo:
1) The Drug Importers 2) The Manufacturers of Illegal Drugs 3) The Criminal organizations that distribute the drugs. 4) The local Crime Boss, and his front people. 5) The people selling drugs on the street corners. 6) The people selling drugs on our school grounds.
You all know of these guys, but have you considered:
7) The lawyers who defend the criminals in court. 8) The lobbyists who are working the halls of government and justice. 9) The police force, who receive funding based on the size of the Drug problem. The police have no interest at all in catching the the drug pushers and closing down their organizations. 10) How about our prisons, without drug offenders they would have to close half of them. 11) Judges, Crown Prosecutors, court personal etc. 12) How about the whole drug enforcement system.
The list just goes on and on: All these people have an interest in keeping the system as it is.
So how do we stop it?
To stop it you need to take the profit motive out of it.
So how do we do this?
Well let’s start by treating drug addiction as a disease (which it is) and giving the addicts prescriptions for
their drugs. You then have a chance to reach these people and maybe turn their lives around, at the very least you take them off the street. Reducing street crime, break and entries, prostitution, muggings etc.
Addicts would be getting cleaner drugs, and clean needles, reducing the costs to the health care system.
This is complicated and start up is costly, no where near as costly as the crime it would replace, and the legal system the drug trade supports. Complicated yes, not as complicated as the system we are running now.
Next step legalize recreational drugs, and sell them through government outlets. Costly start up but would very quickly pay the cost of the whole preventive system. Also, people would be getting cleaner drugs, and would be less likely to try street drugs.
There would be very little reason for the development of new recreational drugs, (no money in it).
There would be no one at our schools pushing drugs at our children.
Our Police and court system could be refocused on other hard core crime problems.
Over time, the number of addicted people would drop, but the big change would be people coming into the system from the hard drug side of things.
There would no longer be a profit motive, at least not on any great scale.
Thank you Dan Mulligan…. One would suspect that when even 28 year veterans of policing say re-legalize cannabis ….maybe it is time to take the blinders off eh?
Bravo !
Sadly I stood outside the 2006 Quebec City NDP national convention watching senior NDP use cannabis then go back inside and vote down anyone mentioning the word….thats why I ran for party president…just to say that word…cannabis
I wasnt going to comment again here because it would only be an argument to others comments about so called “harms” …when I know much different…..and to be completely honest say nothing in my entire 54 years has ever ever ever harmed me more personally than to go to jail as an innocent man and not see my children for two years…. 20 years ago
Never being qualified ever again with any of the jobs I had ever done previously …..bank manager…revenue canada department head… financial manager….and now then always being stuck in a world of barehanded labour living hand to mouth because of a life changing criminal record for something I still do stands as a second biggest harm thank you very much !!!
No I wasn’t going to comment again hoping smart liberals would please resond….Yes thank you Sir….Dan !!
I hadnt even mentioned the number one cause of deaths of young men outside of accidents is actually suicide…yet… negligible numbers to those young men who have tried cannabis….bizarre eh?
I hadnt even dealt with the violence created with alcohol nor pointed out the obvious on the differences…..we are far beyond all that obvious information I should hope
Its no secret why this is still even an issue..it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with health…. harm …or even any concern for “” my fellow man”””… type of thing….you must be joking right?
No…… as some one who has for 21 years been standing up to the obvious and even been attacked personally by harpercrit himself…(I believe….( shavluk.com) I must again comment ….I guess I just need to
If the liberals dont wake up …finally…now I am sorry but…. I just fear no return ever possible to a canada I have always defended… known and been proud of…it will be over
I have served my country in two official capacities yet never have I been more ashamed of it as now
We were a nation that was a beacon to the world….to truth… freedom and hopefulness….now we are nothing more than texas north and run out of calgary oil money head quarters
My last kick at the cat I just ran federally again …walked the streets for 32 days actually …spoke to 6 thousand people individually …….and reminded all I could that we could in fact right now all be driving @ 70 cents a litre …on LNG …that we actually just easily filled up with at home with
And the results of that actually cut CO 2 emissions… instantly by 30 % …that is a fact….even with canadian invented technology …google “fuelmaker” (long story harper allowed killed)
Sadly harper with his calgary petroleum club owners (the same ones who financed his Reform Party take over funding by the way ) make sure you never ever have a clue about that choice either
No… it is with the knowledge that I must do this now that I stand up here again and ask that all of us yes please do stand up and use this issue to again unify all fair minded canadians …all peace keeping canadians and all “pro-choice in anything personal” canadians …..to now stand up and save canada…the canada that was here for 144 years and who should continue to be here for this world …not the soon given over ugly step child slave of a thirsty american master
If we can not stand up on this one issue armed with so much …we will never ever stop the real agenda of harpercrit and that is draining all our water freely to americans besides just all our oil
The battle for canada must be started now by the party with the best chances and with the proper ammunition against harper and no issue in canada unites more different peoples than the cannabis issue and crime
I say its time the liberals actually woke up
Its time for common sense government…..and a common sense party
Again its the liberals election to lose
Heres to smart choices and to canada !! our canada
While I would place myself to the right of Attilla the Hun on the political spectrum in relation to a number of issues, my 28 years of policing has led to a considerably softer and more realistic stance on our great Cannabis debate. The sooner this stuff is legalized & strictly regulated, the better… as mentioned earlier in this conversation, PM TRUDEAU saw fit to put together the LeDAIN Commission in ’69… I strongly suggest our justice committee take it out, dust it off and read the damn thing… 42 years later we are STILL making criminals out of 18 yr olds with a few joints in their possession… now THAT is a crime in my humble opinion. Police forces across this country (and subsequently our criminal justice system) are spending untold multi-millions annually… the only end result being criminal organizations making considerably higher profits with fluctuating supply and increasing demand. We chase this stuff because it’s real simple to generate numbers… while Methamphetamine, Oxycontin and the opiate derivatives are reeking widespread havoc with our youth.
Don’t bother wasting time & effort on this “de-criminalization” sham… if 30 grams or less is NOT a criminal offence, then only the lawyers will get richer over the course of the next 10-15 years … ultimately & SUCCESSFULLY arguing to “the supremes”…that “my client’s kilo contains exactly the same product as the “de-criminalized” 30 grams!!!!!”
Our demographics are currently perfect for this debate :-) The economic implications of the legalization of this relatively harmless herb are STAGGERING!!
Anyone with any doubts whatsoever as to the considerable benefits derived from this ancient herb, need only google “medical cannabis” and review the Wikipedia site.
Professionally managed, this single issue has the potential for the Liberal party to once again provide a viable alternative to the current government.
shavluk – I fear you may have misunderstood my comments.
In brief, the physical effects of marijuana use are very similar to those experienced by cigarette smokers. There is much evidence to validate my position. The research is not so definitive on the emotional/addictive effects. Nor does the evidence definitively prove whether marijuana use in and of itslf is a gateway drug to other, more serious substances. I encourage you to google, “The health effects of smoking cannabis” or any other phraseology you choose.
So if we assume the evidence exists, that debate becomes moot. My position is that there are significant health risks to smoking marijuana. However, as with other substances (sugar, processed food etc), users must be in a position to make informed choices.
Prohibition in the 30s didn’t work, our draconian drug laws don’t work, and I believe decriminalization/regulation is the answer. Criminalizing pot smokers, as part of an overall “drug strategy” is inappropriate and ineffective.
Instead, I would like to see more resources put into education of the effects of marijuana use, targeting young people. Adults will smoke or not. And to be honest, that is irrelevant to me. Young people, however, developmentally are impulsive and very susceptible to the influence of peers, parents and advertising. In the same way that an anti-tobacco campaign had a significant impact on cigarette smoking among young people, I feel a similar strategy would work specific to marijuana use.
I agree that marijuana users are unlikely to commit armed robberies or other violent crimes to finance their habits. The greatest risk, as I see it, is on their grocery bill – most especially relating to chips, chocolate, cake…..you get my point.
My second point relates to crystal meth, crack cocaine, heroin etc. These drugs are the scourge of society and do have long-term societal impacts that affect not just the user, but all citizens.
An effective drug strategy would include a mult-pronged approach:
I feel the focus on marijuana is inappropriate, ineffective and unnecessary. I further feel that this resolution is obliquely worded and does not go far enough in the education of young people.
We are running out of time here people Please get involved and stand up !
To recap here maybe
Viewing this issue as simply about legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana tends to place this issue fairly low (like off the radar) on many people’s progressive agenda. Viewing it as putting an end to the war on drugs elevates the issue to a top priority. The war on drugs is the cutting edge of fascism in America. It is absolutely central to the loss of civil liberties, freedom and justice in America, and paved the way for the final removal of civil rights protections under the banner of the war on terror. We in Canada are perpetuating a war on our own citizens under our current marijuana laws. This is unconscionable and obscene and must not be allowed to continue. We have been lied to with our own tax dollars for decades. The struggle to legalize marijuana is a struggle not only for justice, but for an invaluable and abundant medicine. It is a struggle of truth against lies, and individual and collective will against multinational corporations. It is very difficult to exaggerate the harm that has been caused by the war on drugs. When the dots are all connected, it’s not at all hard to argue that legalizing marijuana ought to have the highest priority with all progressive people and parties
People need to understand that there is more than one option where illicit drugs are concerned.
Maybe not legalization as some see it , RE-regulation. The difference is important. As legal as alcohol is which it isn’t in reality
I have never endorsed legalization as in anything but the alcohol model — but I do call for re-regulation.
In public policy, “regulation” means management according to some rational and revisable criteria, rather than by random, chaotic chance.
Most of the modern world regulates everything that comes into contact with citizens: from securities to radio bandwith, from milk to banks to air-travel safety to telecommunications to food production to children’s toys to drinking water. Everything that touches us is regulated according to some criteria embedded in laws, enforceable – ultimately – by the state.
These things are all legal, but they’re also heavily regulated. Just try to sell unpasteurized milk from your own cows to your next door neighbour.
By and large, most regulations work pretty well. We do have our Walkertons and our Dr. Charles Smith events, but these are few and far between. Regulation has its critics but it prevents a lot of McCain food-like disasters.
We regulate everything according to criteria specific to the product or service and its impact on public well being. Different forms of regulation for different products and services, whether Goodyear Tires or Tupperware.
These regulations are informed by statistics and other forms of evidence. We would never consider regulating something – like smoke alarms or baby formula – without having a great deal of evidence about how those regulations will or will not produce benefit rather than harm.
Regulation is about rationality and predictability. It’s about understanding the balance of harms and benefits and creating the conditions to maximize benefits and minimize harms.
This, at least, is how political scientists (like me) understand regulation.
With regard to illicit drugs, we use a form of regulation called “prohibition.” Prohibition relies on punishment and threat of punishment through the criminal justice system.
Prohibition is supposed to work through the magic of deterrence. You won’t touch drugs because you know that if you get busted you’ll get a criminal record and your life chances will be negatively affected.
We do with illicit drugs, in other words, what was once done with alcohol – and with the same results: violence, corruption, graft and death.
In essence — and this is the point – we regulate the production, distribution and consumption of illicit drugs by handing it over to the contest between organized crime and police.
As a consequence, organized crime is thriving. Prices to users are lower, supply is better and purity is higher than 40 years ago when Richard Nixon declared his “war on drugs.”
Quoting from a recent court ruling here in Ontario: “People have been going to jail for drug offences for – for a couple of generations now and the drug – the drug plague is worse than it ever was … If something doesn’t work, do I try doing it again and again to see if it does work? Isn’t that the definition of insanity?”
The big crime syndicates have Spanish names today. Instead of Al Capone it’s Miguel Caro Quintero. Instead of alcohol, it’s cocaine, ecstasy, cannabis and meth.
Big seizures are made on a weekly basis, yet supply is unaffected – and a handful of powerful organized criminal groups get fabulously wealthy: enough to literally outgun police and military forces in Mexico and to purchase the government of Afghanistan.
Illicit drug profits constitute the oxygen of organized crime – globally, nationally and locally.
These are facts you can confirm with the UN World Drug Report
Prohibition fails because it attempts to negate the iron laws of supply and demand.
So this form of regulation – called prohibition — enriches organized crime but does nothing to address demand, i.e., reduce the flow of drugs to users on the street. It brings with it lots of violence, deaths by overdose, disease transmission, police corruption, swollen prisons, etc.
Prohibition is a policy choice, not a law of nature like gravity. We chose to use prohibition in 1908 for racist purposes and we’ve only added to it and built on it since.
The worst effect of drug prohibition is that it creates incentives for our political leaders to lie to us – and to make promises they know they can’t keep.
And the same is true of police: in private they admit that (in their words), “We’ll never arrest out way out of our drug problems” but in public they have to play the prohibition game even though they will admit (in private) that drug prohibition corrupts cops and destroys the profession.
Prohibition CREATES crime. Always has and always will.
Don’t take my word for it: see http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php – these people are not nut-cases. They have seen the harm of drug prohibition and have crossed over.
See this excellent essay by Gil Puder – who used to work to the downtown eastside of Vancouver:www.leap.cc/publications/puderempirestrikes.pdf
More recently, see this video of the Senate Testimony of Constable David Bratzer:www.youtube.com/watch?v=173LZbyWCOU
My claim here is that prohibition — as a form of regulation — produces so many undesirable consequences that we ought to abandon it and choose a form of regulation that gives us more of what we want and less of what we don’t want.
What I want less of – much less of – is organized crime, drug gangs and drug-business criminality.
What I want more of – much more of – is education, prevention, harm reduction, public health and community safety.
So I favour a form of regulation that would NOT create incentives for organized criminal gangs to control the drug trade – because, for me, organized crime and drug gangs are the worst of all evils.
Not everyone will agree with this. Everyone who studies this issue agrees that prohibition gives rise to organized criminal violence – but some people are willing to tolerate a certain amount of violence by organized crime because they think that, eventually, we’ll figure out how to apply the right police resources to eradicate it once and for all.
I’m doubtful. We’ve been at it for 101 years and we’re no closer. Not even the Americans, who employ much greater police force and violence, have been successful.
So I would endorse a system of RE-regulation – there are many models on offer – that took the production, distribution and consumption of currently illicit drugs out of the hands of organized crime.
Does this imply legalization?
It could, for some substances, but it does not HAVE to.
It all depends on what we – as a society – choose to regulate in the interests of public safety versus that which we leave to organized crime.
And that depends on how much we are willing to tolerate the participation of organized crime because – on the evidence of the last 101 years – they are going to meet a market demand whatever the penalties enacted in prohibitionist laws.
Virtually every government-commissioned analysis of drug policy in the 20th-Century has agreed that cannabis should never have been criminalized in the first place.
So cannabis should – on the evidence – be decriminalized and regulated so as to control for quality, purity and access to young persons.
My preference is to regulate AGAINST the interests of organized criminal gangs – but there are other ways to regulate too, to trade off competing values where drugs are concerned.
So that’s it: if it were up to me I would design a system of regulation which sucked the oxygen out of the black market and took the profit out of supplying the market for currently illicit drugs. That would be my priority.
In its current writing, I do not support this resolution.
I do, however, support the decriminalization of cannabis.
The evidence for decriminalization is clear. Science has proven the risks associated with marijuana use, and it now falls to Liberals to have an education and communication strategy which identifies these risks, and communicates them in the same way we have been educated on the risks of tobacco, alcohol, sugar, processed foods etc. etc.
If we assume a certain number of people smoke marijuana, and will always moke marijuana (legal or not), then the debate becomes the unnecessary criminalization of certain behaviours, with great social and financial cost.
However, as with alcohol and tobacco, if the focus is on preventing vulnerable young people from trying marijuana until they are older, then we may be able to reduce or defer the associated harms.
It must be part of an overall crime prevention/health strategy.
Thanks Laurie Of course we all have opinions How do you suggest we change it?
I aim to educate and change opinions on the issue
But I have a couple of quick questions so far if you dont mind?
Your comment
“” Science has proven the risks associated with marijuana use”"
Can you please provide your evidence to this comment?
Some links?
I as a 30 year daily cannabis user would sure like to know what it is I am supposedly at risk to develop or get and have obviously avoided for 30 years…you see?
And baring in mind driving cars kills 40,000 a year and cannabis NO ONE yes please maybe explain?
Knowing that health Canada lists things that can kill me including everything from alcohol the worst one …. right down to just peanuts I of course must point out cannabis is not on this list but please do share what you have so that I can address it properly please
And then please address how this decriminalization word deals with the realities of …”"SUPPLY”"
With all due respect decriminalization is a misnomer
I think we would agree in principle about the underlying intentions but maybe disagree based on just wording?
But I know we cant be just half pregnant
Those who use cannabis are either dirty rotten scum of the earth or they are not
It is either a vile disgusting habit or it isnt
They are not victims of themselves nor mindless slaves to addiction as some maybe make out
It is not like Crystal Meth or tobacco use…..anyone can take it or leave it without physical withdrawals
One can chose to live life with out driving a car too and see the world in a different way…but we all still see the world
Even liberal prime ministers have tried cannabis
I am sorry but real policy demands real policy…saying we as liberals believe anyone trading or supplying cannabis is still just a criminal is still the wrong choice as it is naive and still providing billions to criminal suppliers needlessly and all of us are now then much less safe needlessly
They wont just go away with a law written…….I say we take the money going to criminal now
Its time to take the blinders off and to quit inventing words just to pretend so called unsavoury habits are dealt with as we put our heads back in the sands and innocents are then shot
Sorry but decriminalization makes about as much sense as decriminalized alcohol consumption
I leave history to explain the results instead of arguing the point
I cant stop Canadians from turning into human larva’s with fats and sugars…lining up in gas guzzling cars steps away from a brewed drug….coffee…..nor do I intend to But I certainly wont just go blindly into the night because I happen to chose my poison or medicine from plants Or because of the cowardice and stupidity of others I then become deemed a criminal from its use
As I say of course the liberals can chose to become irrelevant again…. to 3 million Canadian citizens or more …..of course …..who am I to stop them??
I as a liberal as well can only tell us that we are wrong to do so
And that these people are citizens and that we are talking about victimless crimes and none of these drugs are sold at gun point They are used by consenting adults of every persuasion every culture and every status Heck…….. What’s another couple of elections lost until we get it right?? Eh?
I’d first like to state that I am a non-smoker, tobacco or otherwise.
I think marijuana should be treated just like alcohol, subject to the same controls. The laws regarding where it can be used should be the same as tobacco. All the laws that are already in place re: alcohol & tobacco would address the concerns others have mentioned. It would be a boon to tax revenues and it would take away revenue to crime organizations. Law enforcement should be focused on REAL drugs: cocaine, meth, illegally obtained prescription drugs, etc. These are the drugs that cause problems in our communities, not pot.
If I may add a couple of my election speech points?
I would like to point out that the number one drug prescribed to canadian children is in fact Ritalin…and yes the number one university student study aid
And that if you instead smoked it instead of ingested it ….it must be called by its street name as they are almost identical …CRYSTAL METH
Yes you are correct Rhonda about including legal drugs because right now no police force can get any medical group or government to open up the prescription drug racket !!! On purpose
I will tell you why….10 times as much Oxycontin for example (bush family owned pharmacological heroin clone patented drug )is imported into canada every year than all prescriptions for it combined !!!
You cant touch that drug cartel as they have politicians in their back pockets obviously
I also say in these elections …”"there has never ever been a jail or prison ever built on this entire planet…that illegal drugs have never been found in…so how then will we in fact actually keep them out of SCHOOLS…as please sir how many more billions of dollars will that actually take?? “”"
If the liberals again ignore this issue out of invented fear and cowardice they not only again look like cowards to educated canadians but irrelevant to voters
The harpercrites omnibus crime bill is worth more than only one election victory if used correctly
But sadly it requires guts and leadership….so here’s to many more elections with none of that
I challenge liberals to rise up with science and to ignore morals as they again by their condoning of cowardice earmark thousands more canadian children to receive life changing criminal records for nothing
The green party was only even created because of liberal cowardice….why allow this?
I am unsure of this. I am only sure that until the perception of the POSSIBILITY that marijuana might perhaps be a gateway drug, the public perception may not be in favour of this idea. Until such a time I would say no to the above, until the myth is disproven or proven we cannot in good moral standing approve this resolution. Concretely dispel the myth, then by all means proceed.
As I have said before…. all 3 of the last 3 USA Presidents have admitted their own cannabis use…two are even admitted cocaine users.
In fact 12 USA Presidents used cannabis and many even grew it !
I dont really see where it has held any of them back….do you?
The two biggest killer “drugs” in society are in fact animal fat and sugar…yes they are drugs based on bodily reactions to them and how drugs are determined.
Heart disease stroke diabetes’s and a whole string of problems result in the majority of Canadian deaths per year
So far cannabis has killed ZERO EVER !!
The fact is meat kills more than anything humans eat yet we see no disclaimers on Safeway meat packages so pretending as we destroy thousands more lives over a substance responsible for not one death to date I say is ludicrous and retarded
The only true “gateway” drug…. by the way… is in fact “mothers milk”
But sadly since 2003 even that deemed unsafe for human consumption what with 42 pesticides and heavy metals now contained in the average canadian women’s breast milk…google it
The facts are that the vast majority of people who try cannabis stop using it naturally and the vast majority never try a stronger drug
I would turn it around …what you say.. And ask that we re-legalize cannabis until some one… anyone ….proves anything like a “gateway” drug theory …which as I know never has been done
By the way nearly 100 % of all heroin addicts have tried alcohol Maybe theres the gateway drug I know doesnt exist
Sorry but I can not find one valid reason why cannabis is illegal and every argument I do find from some is based purely on the golden rule of medicine….”"”there is no money made in curing people”"”
I traveled across canada and interviewed people sent home to die from Palliative Care rooms who ended up completely cured of life ending cancers simply by consuming drops of cannabis oil…..if you had cancer wouldn’t you try it?
I would and would go to jail if need be
To me it is actually the “gateway drug” to awareness and better health through this personal awareness
I point out that although alcohol is believed legal it isnt..it is in fact completely regulated and that is our end goal with cannabis
I also point out that even with alcohol and its openness and supposed legality it still has many many citizens who do not ever use it and never will…they don’t feel compelled to try it with no one going to jail for its sales
Its legality by no means threatens anyone nor does it make it so everyone needs to try it
I said in election campaigns I could put a bucket of cocaine and heroin on every street corner and as with now only the 1.3 % hard core addicts would ever touch it…would you?
Sorry the drug is in fact irrelevant as its the individual that needs addressing and their low self esteem in the first place The drugs whether legal or illegal are irrelevant in fact
Still I must say there is no justifiable credible reason to have destroyed 800,000 canadian citizens lives so far with a criminal record just for cannabis possession and bad theories is there?
You are either liberal or you aren’t …you either believe in human rights or you don’t
Conservatism in canada is the gateway to misery and despair or so it seems …no?
Prove other wise while you are at it on this cannabis theory of yours please
I can also say the “gateway” back to a liberal majority will be one that includes sane and rational cannabis policy…I will bet anyone this one
I beleive that legalizing marijuana is an up-stream social experiment. We should de-criminalize it to avoid the over a million crimial records of Candians being further convicted and taunted by what they have done in the past.
However much I would like Canada to take an enlightened approach to drugs (and definitely end the incentive to criminal distribution of them). As this resolution is phrased, it should not be supported.
The Liberal Party can call for a national consultation and study of legalization of drugs. But without that done, and done very well, the Liberal Party cannot call for legalization of marijuana.
Firstly, Canada has international agreements regarding the drug enforcement. And legalization of marijuana would have ramifications to our participation in international law enforcement.
Other problems that need to addressed. (Notwithstanding the items I list below are already problems, for legalization to proceed without addressing them is impossible. … People driving under the influence (is there a roadside test.) … People smoking marijuana where there are children in the home, inhaling the smoke. … People showing up at work under the influence, and perhaps operating equipment.
These are consequences to people other than the user, and although these already occur happen we must consider these issues and their solutions. One comment refers to legalization of small quantities by some American States. This is information that should be compiled and examined.
It is obvious that criminalization of drugs leads to criminal distribution, and a variety of social and health issues. The fact that criminalization creates these issues is grounds for a national consultation and study; but until that is done it would be irresponsible for the Liberal Party call for legalization of marijuana.
Well thanks for your comments Stanley but I must point out what are to me …glaring miss truths in what you say and what to me is nothing more than pure personal opinion by yourself
Now I will not address this at your personally but at your arguments so please dont take offence…and I am not a very good writer so please try to see what I am saying here generally …thank you
First
It was actually the liberals themselves who commissioned the most intensive and comprehensive study ever done by a Canadian government on cannabis …and get this… soon it will have been tabled for over 40 years !!!
The Le Dain Study ruled that in their opinion cannabis should be re legalized….or …the exact wording …”"”"The final report recommended that cannabis be removed from the Narcotic Control Act and that the provinces implement controls on possession and cultivation, similar to those governing the use of alcohol”"”
Ditto the second canadian biggest government effort …the 2002 Senate Report…which as I said recommends legal cannabis for anyone ….thats anyone…over 16
Some like you talk like continuing to put our heads in the sand will do something after 80 years of the reverse that has given more cash to criminals than anything else in our history?
Soon 50 Calibre fully automatic machine guns will kill innocent people two miles away from the incident like in mexico with the harpercrite crime bills
My first thought was that you sound like some one who drinks alcohol ?…..sorry but its alcohol that should in fact be restricted not cannabis but then as I know prohibition doesnt work and that we are safer with legal alcohol sales than illegal ….I turn my discriminations off when discussing that disgusting habit that has killed hundreds of thousands for what??? a hangover???
Sorry but ruining tons more lives (800,000 citizens now with a criminal record so far for possession of cannabis…victimless crime) just so you can think it isnt out there and because you dont partake is just fine…..is of course something that can happen within the liberals…of course
In fact it has been done…as I say for 40 years (Chretien BS ed us the best and gave us hope for decades and created the back lash you have seen and more importantly WILL SEE) But do it one more time and I bet all like you the end result will for sure be the extinction of what you call the liberal party today….without a doubt
We are almost to the point where we dont even need you any more anyway having done experiments supporting and building other partys to show liberals that they are in fact cowards and to be honest knowing what I do about certain liberal MP’s ….HYPOCRITES as well
No sir…..what you speak of in your arguement has already been done and its been done many times !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To me its nothing more than a glib fearful cop out
The fact remains Sir that the only two governments on the planet that actually ever studied cannabis and driving by the way both concluded that in fact subjects actually drove better on cannabis than on NOTHING !
Google it ..Australia and Great Britain
Now to address that old boggy man comment ..Oh what about the americans !!!..
hahhahhahhahaa wow..some are awfully naive …just look at any other treaty the americans dont like…and broke !!
But just to be clear …Portugal basically re legalized cannabis and de crimined all drug use and all the problems you mention and prohibitionists mentioned have in fact gone down Less people are using drugs actually and organized crime weakened AND All they did was send a letter o the UN tsaying they with draw from that treaty…SIMPLE…DONE ….OVER !! The americans have done it with dozens of treaties That argument is not an argument it is a theory…nothing more
Now I am not trying to offend and hope I am not …to me though its like listening to a couple of good ol boys…a couple of old americans talking about how its great that they string up a few of those darkies once in a while to teach them all a lesson…how dare they look at a white women…. Yes sir …it is that repulsive to me and I am one of those 800,000 innocent canadian citizens and I have paid for over 20 years for a victimless crime I did not even commit and I am done paying sir
I have been in 5 Federal election fights and 3 Provincial election fights …and have run for BC Green leader and President of the NDP…and much more
We are organized…we are here …we do vote !!!!!!!!!!!!!!…we make people and parties LOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry as a canadian armed forces veteran and as a first generation canadian whose whole family was killed in the Ukrainian Holodomor …I must say sir the tone really bothers me
Can we at least stop ruining lives until liberals discover their own government studies have wished them to stand on the side of truth justice and equality re cannabis for almost 40 YEARS !!!! hmmmm??….a cease fire on ruining more canadian lives until some put down their beers and read their own partys studies ??????? hmmm
Sorry if the liberals again fail to look like liberals…well sir it will be because of those like you
I say right here and right now many many many people are watching all this with baited breath….yes I must admit most very cynical because they actually have a memory but all the same many more than those like you I dare say sir
But then to us it is a matter of life and death and not some unsavoury decision darkies bring to themselves as some thought during slavery
In contrast to your …to me ….disturbing thoughts…”"”but until that is done it would be irresponsible for the Liberal Party call for legalization of marijuana”"”" I say it would be more irresponsible of the liberal party to just continue to be complete hypocritical cowards …..as they become irrelevant because of being hypocritical cowards
To us your comments are like saying gays should have continued to be jailed until more studies were done…its that simple
Maybe get up to speed to the studies already done even by liberals before voicing your opinion with no knowledge obviously of what you speak of as arguments?
And in closing I would say that these are your own children and grand children whose lives you are ruining with fear and cowardice…they are not foreigners They are equal citizens with rights !!!!!!!!!!!
There is really no reason for the government to officially demonise marijuana anymore. It’s a waste of massive amounts of money and manpower, and it makes no sense. Of all illicit drugs it is by far the safest and most commonly used. The law is essentially a joke and finally removing it could be a huge push to our international reputation with many countries (not to mention a boost to tourism).
But of course we have our southern neighbors. They continue this pointless crusade and legalising marijuana would likely alienate our closest trading partner and ally. This resolution takes pains to assure that illegal trading and smuggling would be strictly penalized and monitored, and of this we really need to convince the US. This is no small problem – I imagine for many in power it’s the biggest obstacle to finally removing this law.
This is an issue that seriously needs to be discussed, though, and this might be our only chance to finally address it.
And I ask you to read my comments below and then please answer about why you feel the way you do?
Not one person has ever died from cannabis use yet some have died just from drinking too much water And soon even doctors will admit cannabis’s medicinal qualities with legitimacy as research is finally done as a legal substance once again
It was a legal substance for thousands of years and even Bayer the pharmacy giants number 1 ingredient until the plant non patenting laws came in to effect
We can talk crime and prohibition until the cows come home but ….
Just the savings to our current systems and with soon coming 9 billion dollar new tax bills under harper for victimless personal choice crimes
Let alone new industries and new tax dollars….we are preventing by our fears
And if we face the fact that it will still be here whether we regulate it or not and if not we freely then continue to give criminals tax free billions with this choice
Some also speak of “Decrim” or as you say “”lets decriminalize small amounts”"…But what is a small amount ? And by ignoring what decrim is in all reality …..just an illusion…you eventually have to get back to “”supply”"
Ignore “supply” and you actually strengthen crimes hold on cannabis
It may grow on trees but it doesn’t fall from the sky
Imagine decrimed alcohol just for a second….legal to posses…yet illegal to produce or sell…
Some one will make and sell it any way as history taught us and like illegal drugs today I am sure there will be dirty and spiked drugs with our ignoring controlling it … Just as there was in prohibition with wood alcohol being sold that caused blindness
No…… 3 million canadians have waited 100 years for a party to find the guts….even 40 years after the liberals own LeDain study The 2002 Senate hearing that I attended said… LEGAL CANNABIS for anyone over 16 for good reasons
There are already over 800,000 canadian citizens with a criminal record for a plant paying their whole lives with lost opportunities …over victim less crime
Maybe the liberals will actually now speak for the majority of canadians when they say its time for non criminalization of personal choices especially with what facts show as harmless substances
Not sure if Canadians are ready for this yet. How about decriminalization of small amounts of marijuana? This year Connecticut became the 14th U.S. state to decriminalization small amounts of pot.
Now with 11 likes this issue if a front runner It only took nearly 40 years and the near destruction of the party as well as the growth of another one or two other parties and even the creation of a couple more…….maybe its time to take the coward coat off and stop pretending and actually use it????
Hmmmm….me and a couple of million friends have waited a long time…..to help
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For people who don’t think legalizing Marijuana is not important, think again what about all the innocent people who’s lives have been destroyed by prohibition and Steven Harper is trying to punish people more how can one party want to legalize and another wants to put people in jail for longer times, he is only fueling the gangs not hurting them. Marijuana has more medicinal value than anything on this planet and the goverment can not keep it from us any longer it cures cancer and many other problems if you dont belive just type (Rick Simpson Oil)in google and watch some videos, read some articles and it will blow your mind.. As far as i am concerned today is the most important development in legalizing marijuana i have seen in a long time. Way to go Liberals you have my vote
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Bad news. I can’t believe that this is “the” issue that came out of this weekend. The country is scared about their savings and jobs, the Euro zone is about to blow up, and what do you debate? Dope? Yikes! What the heck are you smoking? (Pun intended.)
For the record – I think that it should be legalized and taxed. But yikes – this is NOT the most important issue faced by Canadians. Wait until you get into power, and THEN put this stuff forward. To put this out now — it’s way too idealistic and naive.
Big MISSED opportunity.
@ Cynical ‘Adult’ . . .Bad news . . . Big MISSED opportunity! Hardly.
Affirmation of 117 by a resounding 77% is hardly bad news. It demonstrates the Liberals are a party capable of dealing with the most contentious and under rated of issues of the 21st century head on. Nothing idealistic or naive about that.
The convention demonstrated a Liberal Party dynamic capable of living up to the expectations required as Canada’s Bold New Party! That’s not a missed opportunity.
This is the type of issue that should go to a national referendum. The Conservatives will have a field day with their religious/tough-on-crime base, this plays right into their hands. You need to get elected first, and then put out these types of issues to the entire country. It’s not good enough to say “the majority of Canadians support this”. Let Canadians vote on this as a separate issue and clearly indicate that they support it.
Beware of hyping up “consensus” within the party. Sure, it’s nice, but some dissenting voices are entirely necessary.
Cynical ‘Adult’ was quoted as saying…
“The Conservatives will have a field day with their religious/tough-on-crime base, this plays right into their hands.”
It is the cons “tough on crime bill” that is scaring the pants off the average Canadian… and driving them toward us..it is so far out of touch with the reality in this country.
In the Kelowna–Lake Country riding several informal polls validate this
with 79% of people opposed to Bill C-10 and 78% in favour of legaliazion. Despite the obvious dislike of the C-10… we have no voice here… its being shoved down our throats…117 is an issue who’s time has come.
We will look a lot worse if the cons chide us in the public eye.. and then we back down from resolution 117… the public/political will is there.
Do we want to look weak kneed or look like some guff from the cons can get us to waver… IMHO this would make us look much worse.
In the last year there has been a virtual landslide of credible people backing this very cause… health officers in BC, mayors, politicians…
Public opinion is on our side.. don’t let the cons sway our resolve on 117
thanks
If you are worried about jobs and the economy, then you should be happy this is on the table. It’s legalization would create thousands, if not tens of thousands of jobs. Growing, trimming, drying & curing, transportation and finally retail sales.
All these steps in the process in delivering quality cannabis to adults across the country requires a lot of workers and managers. The resulting increase in jobs, results of course in more consumer spending, thus resulting in a better economy.
Our economy would also no longer have to lose half a billion dollars a year to enforcing useless, ineffective policy, as it does today.
This is a much more significant issue than you seem to think.
Liberal’s, please don’t disappoint our country! Know you’d make history as the revolutionaries who took the first step. Please make this move to legalize cannabis a reality. :)
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Congratulations on the success of the Convention. It was truly inspiring.
Now that there is a yes vote on 117 – the Liberals certainly have my attention. 77% support is truly significant.
Spirited debate! Passed strongly!!
Its blatantly obvious to me, and a lot of other people, quit whining about this and that, bottom line, GOVERNMENT NEEDS MONEY, people in this country(no not everyone)want to keep all our government services, and add more for crying out loud, but they don’t want to pay more taxes, you need more revenue, plus its a green plant, therefore it creates oxygen, and also removes carbon dioxide through the process of photosynthesis, I don’t care about all the online christian warriors saying this and that, increased crime, blah, blah, blah, too bad, you’ve had it your way for so long, where the alchol industry pays the right people to maintain their status of the only legal drug.
I’m sorry I’m so angry, but to me, this is a no brainer, first of all you do it on a probationary basis, meaning if it goes bad, eg. people sitting around all day smoking, and doing nothing else, THAT WON’T WORK GUYS, sorry.
The first thing would be an application for a license to possess no more than a certain amount, and said license should cost around $100 dollars every year plus tax, and if the individual chooses to grow themselves, great, but they will have to apply for a growers permit, which will cost around $500 a year(because they won’t be purchasing government grown pot).
Liberal party this is your only chance to survive, do a formal poll, not some one day thing, do an actual official poll and see the numbers in support of this, and even if its like 20-40 percent, approval, you have no choice, the revenue you will generate makes it too tempting.
The best part is you will free up a lot of other useless funds, like the police busting marijuana drug rings, REALLY, pot rings?You will be able to focus on the real problems, stuff like Heroin, cocaine, and Crystal Meth, all I can say, you are on your last leg Liberals, I voted on every election since I was 18, and there is only one way you will ever get my vote, and I’ve just explained all you have to do, thank you.
Yes, it time we move forward and decriminalized marijuana. Canadian public opinion has not been the cause of the delay. Most Canadians have favoured this action for some time. My only comment taxation is this case referred to GST which would be applicable and up in general revenue. I would included that any additional tax or excise be direct to effective drug addition treatments rather than general revenue.
its time for legalization… and time for people to step up
and not be afraid to admit…
I AM CANNABIAN !
I am not a burnout or a loser,
or a menace to society.
I’m just a person who enjoys the effects of cannabis.
I am your friend, your relative or a co-worker.
Cannabis is not physically addictive, not a gateway drug,
and substantially less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.
What’s causing real harm is the failed policy of prohibition,
which is providing a lucrative funding source for organized crime.
It’s time for facts and reason to replace ideology and prejudice.
It’s time to stop wasting taxpayers’ money on a harmful policy.
It’s time to end the hypocrisy and legalize cannabis for adults.
It’s time for all cannabis consumers to speak up and proudly declare…
I AM CANNABIAN !
http://norml.ca/i-am-cannabian.php
It is not just about marijuana, it is the whole approach to ccrime. SMART ON CRIME!
ok so they do allow links
for the last 6 months i have been gathering
information on the endicannabinoid system.
and have made a page on my site with video’s i have
found important.
http://www.germstv.ca/ecs.htm
good link shavluk .
Here’s an eye-opener/must read for everyone on this topic :-)
http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/freedom/hempinfodoc2.html
We Liberals are actually responsible for this mess!!!
cheers…
mulligan
That is a great link showcasing the benefits of medical marijuana. It is unfortunate that a vast majority of Canadian doctors wish to side with pharmaceutical companies rather than endorse marijuana and its copious benefits. The R. v. Mernagh case from last year showcases this fact as numerous witnesses (who all suffer from serious disorders) were brought forth to give firsthand accounts of the fact that doctor’s are refusing to provide medical marijuana for patients who need it across Canada. Moreover, in some cases the physicians make faulty statements saying they are not licensed/qualified to do so or that it might “look bad” on their reputations. Interestingly they are exactly the people given that authority by Health Canada, and before I write for days I will leave it at that.
Strange my computer has a mind of its own
Maybe someone can add “chance” and delete this one !
Cheers
This is part of why I am involved
Please stand up and help educate
We may never get another
there’s actually 65+ cannabinoids like thc and cbd in the marijuana plant ,but lets not get into that ;p
there’s a lab in santa cruz that tests cannabis. they work with growers
who wish to breed cbd back into the plant,while still keeping a hi level of thc. it’s not hard to fix the damage illegal growers have done.
that would be a benefit of having it legal and regulated.
btw our bodies make cannabinoids. anandamide and 2ag.
Thanks for the clarification Dan. I have long felt that the cost of policing and imprisoning people for possession of cannabis is not worth the risk to society of legalizing. I have been to Amsterdam and they seem like a civilized bunch…I am sure we could be the same. I think the US’s biggest worry is how many folks would be booking their next vacation here!!
kirsten… legalized & regulated cannabis would be available for public sale (to a specified, minimum age group & above) & taxed just like alcohol and tobacco… once legalized, you would be perfectly free to grow your own for private consumption… this is all about freedom of choice and righting a 90 year old wrong that should never have happened.
Does this mean we will be able to buy pot and pay the tax but would not be able to grow it ourselves for our own personal consumption?
Making hootch in your basement isn’t legal. The problem with today’s pot is the potency – as much as 100 times more than it was in the sixties and seventies. As a result, the CBD is just about nil.
Selling it in a similar manner as alcohol just might get more of the population to agree with the proposal.
Pardon my ignorance but what is DBC? By the way….there are no regulations on how much we drink. It is perfectly legal to go out and get trashed every night. Clearly level of consumption is not the issue. Just the type of consumption.
If you mean CBD, it’s a naturally occurring element of marijuana that counteracts the harmful aspects of THC, such as Schizophrenia.
The higher the TCH is ‘bred’ into the plant, the lower the CBD. We can’t legally drink over proof spirits either. It’s set at 40% for a reason – death by alcohol poisoning. One generally passes out long before that occurs, unless the alcohol content is closer to 100%.
@ Christopher
Making wine is legal though and its the safety issues in question as to why hootch isnt because it requires a still and a still requires heat
You are not supposed to weld in your basement either…so what?
You are miss leading and I say completely wrong in fact
If you think cannabis is 100 times stronger in fact I say you are lying
I challenge anyone to find these so called devil or killer weed and please send them to me for analysis because I know its a lie
If you did find some I want it any way…thank you
CBD …?? now you are going to pretend you are not just reading DEA materials?
Please explain how many cannabis samples you have tested ..where they were tested and what levels of THC and CBD you have seen??
Again I call BS
How much should normally be in cannabis Chris??..go ahead…
And what does it do?
Please show the levels for the last 80 years they have been ruining peoples lives for it …??
Was this the excuse all along?? ..LOL
Then please explain HOW YOU GROW CANNABIS WITH OUT CBD..??? YES PLEASE?
I am blown away by the levels some go to I really am
I also laugh my face off with some who think if it again becomes normal and re legalized that some how they will then need to worry about trying it if they have not done so so far..LOL
Ignorance and misinformation needs to stop please
There has always been good cannabis and bad ..meaning weaker and less bang for your buck
Like with Everclear alcohol which of course most never get to try it is available and like with strong cannabis when it is used it is used in smaller quantities
And it is Prohibition PERIOD that results in the attempts to concentrate drugs PERIOD !!
Prohibitionists are totally responsible for Chrystal Meth and the soon coming flesh eating Russian cocaine soon here…but bottom line all the problems start with prohibition itself and LIES and greed.
Hi everyone,
This has truly been a very thoughtful discussion, not to say debate. We appreciate that the conversation remains on the issue at hand and not on the people expressing their views. Personal attacks and insults will not be tolerated so thanks everyone for keeping this civil, respectful, and thoughtful. Discussion is an important part of democracy so by all means please keep going.
You are correct Andre’ and I am sorry but lies or mistruths or what ever are very important to respond to
I am not attacking Chris I am responding to the tone his words project and I still say that unless we deal with issue it will become much much worse the assortment of altered drugs
It was my own police department who put out those angel dusted pot stories and it took a lot of work and pushing to get them to admit that they have never ever really ever found any
Those I have fought for over 20 years will…some of them… even kill to keep this substance illegal
I make no bones about my sense of urgency
But Chris I apoligize if I went over board
See you in Ottawa …I look forward to our discussion
I am @ Le Suites and will be there thursday evening
Cannabidiol (CBD) has been linked to the prevention of schizophrenia. I spent a good deal of time researching the subject after watching a documentary.
I am not opposed to legalizing marijuana, just the absolute right to allow it so potent that the benefits are dissipated.
We regulate alcohol for the same reason, and many studies have been done as to the benefits of moderate consumption. As with many things, it’s the excess of consumption that causes harm, and we don’t live in a Libertine society. We wear seatbelts, can’t drive intoxicate and have a myriad of other laws meant both ourselves and the people we affect.
I hope you read my story of how we got seat belts eh?
Yes like Everclear which is the purest and strongest legal alcohol you certainly wont find many shooting shots of it
Like the alcohol model though is how I see it and we will clean the supply and provide the correct levels so that most will just as in liquor stores just use mainstream varieties
BUT PLEASE REMEMBER !! SEND ME THE KILLER STUFF EH ….LOL
See you all there !! ….I know our chances are limited what with harpercrit already scared to death we will even try to talk about it
I am sure he has a plan to make sure liberal never wake up…I imagine some back room deal like with the ndp and the greens?? perhaps
lizzy would have been a Senator about now I suspect ….had see not consumed the green party just to get herself important with MP salary
LOL
Decriminalization is definately the first step which needs to be taken in Cananda. I agree that Canada needs to start making their own decisions rather than worrying about the United States, especially when considering many of the individual states have decriminalized small possession already. This action is much easier said than done, however I think we can all agree it would be refreshing to witness our government taking the forefront on properly dealing with marijuana as well as other social issues. The prohibition of marijuana has failed, plain and simple. Canada needs to explore alternative avenues and it begins with properly re-educating its citizens who have been lied to using false statements and propaganda.
Decriminalization would do nothing to undermine organized crime or to safeguard youth and communities. Decriminalization does nothing to negatively impact the black market or grow operations.
These are the types of progressive laws that Canada needs. Financially and morally it just makes sense. I think there would be opponants, but it would take no time for Canadians to get used to it. Think of gay marrige. This would create a great national discussion on where justice is headed and where it should head. It would also greatly serve to define us from the other parties and show true strength and vision.
“the enocannabinoid system”
google it
marijuana is a medicine. even smoking it .
health Canada agree’s
scientist’s have discovered it’s compounds like thc
have incredible healing properties.
cannabinoids are the miracle drug everyone’s been looking for.
they’ve known for years. tissue tests and animal test have been done . there making cannabinoid based medicines right now. patents are coming out. ” cannabis science ” its the new medicine
and were arguing if it should be legal or not.
these stupid laws,prohibition . is presently holding
back the progress of Canada . in many ways.
*A doctor in the states gets teens with add ,adhd to smoke pot
and there able to function properly after wards.
*smoking pot lowers your chances of getting cancer -dr.taskin ucla
as spin**
Hi James,
Unless we as a Nation are willing to remove ourselves from the U.N. Treaty on controlled substances – which would lead to the immediate closure of the border to the US – then we can not legalize Marijuana. It would require agreement from the UN to remove marijuana from the same classification as heroin in the treaty.
We can decriminalize it and should. We cannot regulate it. Comparisons to alcohol are flimsy at best. One can illegally grow pot for their own consumption without detection or hardship. The difficulties and dangers in the operation of a “still” to produce alcohol on the other hand is what allows us to regulate that particular vice.
See you in Ottawa,
Andrew Lang
I disagree that the States would close the border and risk the certain economic disaster that would certainly cause. It is time to stop treating ourselves like the step child of the United States and act in our own interests knowing that we, as their largest trading partner, have leverage and are not subservient to our neighbours. They can have their drug war but we should not be influenced by it. Also, legalizing, regulating and taxing marijuana would decrease smuggling. People tend to smuggle illegal products, not easily accessible products.
See you next weekend.
If you believe alcohol should remain legal, consistency requires that marijuana should also be legal. To begin pontificating about how this resolution might be perceived is a coward’s way of saying that convictions are not as important and spin.
The government should not have say over what we put into our bodies, especially if it is a substance scientifically proven to be less harmful than many substances already on our shelves.
I for one do not believe that alcohol should be ‘legal’
Then you should know you believe in funding organized crime. You have to be realistic. Prohibition creates Capones. Weed prohibition creates a massive fund for bikers and other criminals to buy guns, cocaine and influence.
it is not a matter if something is good or bad. Prohibition simply does not work, making alcohol illegal didnt curtail drinking, it caused a mafia war as different families battle out for dominance. It does not work, it never worked, and it will never work. The supreme court already decriminalized simple possession. So there is no reason for them to be scared of having it. That’s alot of money for the hells angels and Rizzuto family.
Commercialization of legitimate business entities. Get the tobacco companies to corner it.
besides average joes god given right to get hi
besides an end to marijuana related crime
besides stirring the economy
besides it being regulated better, out of the hands of children
besides it opening a new field of scientific study
there’s one more thing to consider.
the thousands of people who have to wait months to get medical marijuana. people with epilepsy and nausea from chemo.with depression
who have to fill out forms that doctors have to sign and witnesses to sign saying the doctors not liable
then they have to get an assigned grower, then send in the forms, wait 8 to 10 weeks for a permit ,a card.
then , you can legally take your medicine. and they have to fill out those forms once a year, the medicine is expensive and allot can’t afford it.
to me that’s a crime in itself.
make people go through that to get medicine.
why can’t any doctor give out a prescription and the person takes it to a pharmacy and gets it filled ?
its our current laws that are causing this to happen.
it’s sickening .
if health Canada is approving it to people with pain and depression
non lethal conditions isn’t that a sign it’s not that bad for us?
and that in fact it maybe beneficial for some to smoke.
So, how exactly are you going to get this legislation past Harper’s stacked senate? It’s the same old game. This will have to be legalized by “activist”judges. WE have a system that’s so screwed up that the PM can stop legislation of the next govt by loading up the senate. So many bills have died due to falling govts, or stacked senates, I’ve lost count. This should have been legalized in the 70′s but we had to study the study or the study of the study or the research of the study. lol. Politicians jump on this band wagon whenever they know it can’t be passed. Seriously. HOW are you going to pass this legislation ? Pass a bong around the senate chamber? If not, don’t count on the conservative senate passing legalization of Cannabis. This needs a supreme court bypass or a referendum. ASAP.
And this is your reasoning not to try?
You discount any of the Senators being actually human
Harper only made his latest round of graft appointments because Senator Nolin announced he as a conservative would not support the crime bill because cannabis should be legal !!
Oh yee of little faith
It must be done…and it will be !!
If anything it can rebuild the party and hopefully they will then remember this time when in the drivers seat again
But not all Senators are as stupid as harpercrit thinks.. I say
Cheers
And Merry Ukrainian Christmas
I need to go put the turkey in the oven…later !
there was a man in nova scotia, his name is rick simpson.
if you google his name you will get a Ton of hits. from around 2003 and 2009 he cured around 300 people of cancer. he grew pot on his property
which he informed the police of this. he made oil and gave it to people for free. he found out allot of information on how much is needed and what kind of symptoms people are going to have . obviously the cops were watching him and they started sending sick love ones to him. eventually it got to big, he became to well known. it was working and the news was spreading to the wrong places. the rcmp shut him down , it went to court. they refused to hear statements from doctors and people cured. he was given a $2000 fine . a year later he was in Amsterdam picking up his freedom fighter award and the rcmp raided his house and informed him when he returns he will be arrested. he’s still in Europe
do you think he should be in jail ? this Canadian knows more about hands on
cannabis oil treatment then anyone on the planet .
most of the people in jail especially for marijuana related crimes
should be doing community services etc , it has been shown to work far better then imprisonment , and it’s allot cheaper .
marijuana is a drug but not in the way you think.
i’m wondering if anyone does research on marijuana?
let me sum up what i’ve discovered in the last 6 months.
why does pot get you hi ? its a chemical called thc. how does it work?
there are receptors in the brain for thc. well that doesn’t make sense
the brain would not develop receptors for a plant chemical, there has to be a chemical we produce that binds to these receptors.[cb1 and cb2 receptors] yes there is they have found 2,2ag and anandamide .cb1 is the most abundant receptor in the brain , and not just the brain but the entire body is covered in them mostly cb2 . it is an entire system we use to regulate just about everything . its called the endocannabinoid system . google it. google dr.melamede . the endo cannabinoid system is at the heart of evolution. the cannabis plant has over 65 different types of cannabinoids in it . this is the most important discovery in modern medicine . digesting cannabinoids . the oil extracted from the cannabis plant prepared and digested in a certain way
will replenish and reset your endocannabinoid system. it tells cancer cells to die, turns off the bodies autoimmune system and resets it so
in the case of t2 diabetes it makes your tissue sensitive to insulin again.
right now companies like sanofi aventiss and others are scrambling to put out pattens on cannabinoid based medicines. BTW people who smoke cannabis have LESS incidences of cancer then people who smoke nothing at all .
tests done by dr.taskin ucla.
Disagree. We are trying our best to eliminate tobacco. We need not go down that route again.
Do you want to jail those people too?
Any chance you are an ex smoker?
$109,000 a year in federal jail
One would think 10,000 for an education or housing or hell nicotine patches made more sense eh?
Think of the damage meat eaters really cause
Shouldnt they be jailed too?
I hope some gay people get my point about some here thinking it best to still jail them too …until more studies were done…and done by straight people hahhaha
See you all in Ottawa…you wont be able to miss me if you are around for this topics discussion
Maybe I can look at some the wrong way and be taken to jail so that some do not get nightmares as I stand up for my and 3 million other canadian citizens rights !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FYI I have severe allergetic reaction to tobacco.
There are some very strong arguements both pro and con on the legalization of marijuna however in the many comments I have read, I think most of you are missing one vital element, public perception and support. I live in a small community of 5000 people and yes marijuna is as available here per say as anywhere. However, knowing all the people who live on my street personally, those using marijuna would be less than 15%. I know the seniors would not support this proposal and therefore would vote against the Liberal party if this became a policy. I also know the 10 to 15 year olds and very few of them if any are using marijuna. I have a 14 year old boy and I know what is going on around here. As a matter of interest I would also state that the majority of this youth category would also vote against the proposal if they were entitled to vote. Yes there are some good arguements for legalizing this drug, however it is similar to tobacco. Tobacco is regulated by government but cigarettes is one of the biggest items on the black market. Also those now growing marijuna for profit will not stop doing so just because you legalized the product. Regardless of the pros and cons, I do not think Canadians will support this proposal and thus the Liberal Party looses at the polls.
@ Michael
And I disagree with you completely and say a couple of things
- seniors already vote by and large for conservatives
- And you know a lot of lying teenagers
- You can lose much more and if you think matching the harpercrite policies will work to gain votes again I say you are wrong
- no one says anyone has to try it because no one is being shot for it
@ Benjamin…..You ever jaywalk??….Yep I think you missed the resolution about the death penalty for it …and the back dating it too
Stick around soon we will make hockey games and sugar illegal so we can ruin more lives needlessly
And I guess you of course think all those jailed for being gay should of course stay as criminals too I bet eh?
Luis Riel was a terrorist I bet eh?
Hmm…I am just thankful that when my 3 million friends get here the bad parts of this party should be diluted so far as to be irrelevant
See you all in Ottawa !!
I would support this resolution except for the part where it eliminates all criminal records of past convictions. Breaking the law is breaking the law, even if that law is no longer valid. It would be different if we were talking about people who were arrested for openly protesting this law in order to change it, but that is not the case in the vast majority of convictions. Most convictions are of people who know it is a crime, do little or nothing to change this fact and break the law anyway. On top of the blatant disrespect for the law, these people contribute to organized crime through their purchases often knowingly. while it is fair to say that this is because marijuana is illegal (and so on these grounds it would make sense to legalize it I agree) it does not make sense to say they are not still responsible for their contribution to organized crime. As long as they have a choice, which they did, they must be held accountable for their actions. Actively contributing to a criminal element and disregarding the law should have consequences and those consequences should not be retroactively undermined. Put simply, even if we agree they were right to smoke, I do not think it follows that they were right to smoke in spite of the law having not first engaged the law.
SMART ON CRIME
To deny the existance of a drug problem in our society, is to put your head in the sand.
Deinal is not the answer, so give us some solid options.
WHO DO YOU WANT SELLING YOUR DRUGS TO YOUR KITS AND GRAND KIDS. THAT ANSWER IS EASY. NO ONE!!
WHEN YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER IS HOOKED. YOU WANT HER/HIM GETTING A FIX ON THE STREET CORNER FOR $20.
So let us here your suggestions. Denial will not make the problem go away.
OH! You are really going to piss off the Amercans.
SMART ON CRIME, I like that. This would be smart on crime.
I’ve read somewhere that 85% of the crime in the country is related to drugs. That most of the money that the crime organizations make are from drugs. So we need to look at who has an interest in keeping the status quo:
1) The Drug Importers
2) The Manufacturers of Illegal Drugs
3) The Criminal organizations that distribute the
drugs.
4) The local Crime Boss, and his front people.
5) The people selling drugs on the street corners.
6) The people selling drugs on our school grounds.
You all know of these guys, but have you considered:
7) The lawyers who defend the criminals in court.
8) The lobbyists who are working the halls of
government and justice.
9) The police force, who receive funding based on the
size of the Drug problem. The police have no
interest at all in catching the the drug pushers
and closing down their organizations.
10) How about our prisons, without drug offenders they
would have to close half of them.
11) Judges, Crown Prosecutors, court personal etc.
12) How about the whole drug enforcement system.
The list just goes on and on: All these people have an interest in keeping the system as it is.
So how do we stop it?
To stop it you need to take the profit motive out of it.
So how do we do this?
Well let’s start by treating drug addiction as a disease (which it is) and giving the addicts prescriptions for their drugs. You then have a chance to reach these people and maybe turn their lives around, at the very least you take them off the street. Reducing street crime, break and entries, prostitution, muggings etc.
Addicts would be getting cleaner drugs, and clean needles, reducing the costs to the health care system.
This is complicated and start up is costly, no where near as costly as the crime it would replace, and the legal system the drug trade supports. Complicated yes, not as complicated as the system we are running now.
Next step legalize recreational drugs, and sell them through government outlets. Costly start up but would very quickly pay the cost of the whole preventive system. Also, people would be getting cleaner drugs, and would be less likely to try street drugs.
There would be very little reason for the development of new recreational drugs, (no money in it).
There would be no one at our schools pushing drugs at our children.
Our Police and court system could be refocused on other hard core crime problems.
Over time, the number of addicted people would drop, but the big change would be people coming into the system from the hard drug side of things.
There would no longer be a profit motive, at least not on any great scale.
why do people smoke pot ? to get hi.
to get stoned . but do we know why we get hi from a plant resin?
yes we have receptors in our brain – there called cb1 receptors [cb2 also]
when someone smokes pot the thc stimulates these receptors in a certain way.
but there not there just so we can get hi . they were already there.
in fact the cb receptors are in almost every creature on this planet.
it is at the foundation of evolution .its the difference between insects and us
these receptors are in every part of our body they are used to regulate almost everything. its called the “endocannabinoid system” we create these cannabinoids
in our bodies naturally . thc is just a type of cannabinoid.but the cannabis plant
has over 60 cannabinoids in it,only a few get one hi.smoking cannabis has little health benefits compared to digesting the oil from it. by digesting the oil you replenish a system we use to regulate everything.even the way we think.i mean replenish because in our modern world our endocannabinoid system is working over time
fighting off all the toxins we consume or are exposed to. the endo cannabinoid system is what we use to fight off illnesses like cancer or autoimmune deceases.
so digesting cannabis oil, that is full of cannabinoids gives our body the fuel
to fight off these illnesses. so yes i say legalize it ;p
it will end gang related violence , it will stimulate the economy
and create new jobs.and it can cure the sick.
make it corporate. YOu buy a permit, a permit is good for ten years, and it costs 30 million upfront. Clean, legal, funds. Let the tobacco companies take it.
That is an interesting idea zach…re-constitute all them old tobacco farms in southern ontario with a crop that has a medical, commodity and tax value … jobs,jobs,jobs
Hmm… regulation and a nice little new source of tax revenue, similar to tobacco and alcohol.
I imagine it would still be cheaper than buying from the criminals.
I know how to make it even cheaper: legalize it and DO NOT tax it.
Like that will ever happen…
Sin taxes have been around for far longer than I’ve lived, and that’s over half a century.
It’s the Conservatives that think cutting taxes and increasing spending will balance the budget. I call that stupid.
In a perfect world maybe…
Iam pulled in different directions on this resolution. My gut reaction is all I have on this one. I support this because it just seems the right thing to do despite knowing that our support will be fodder for the conservatives in the next election. We liberals were known to take tough decisions on issues that are not always politically smart but aregood for our nation as a whole. Regulating marijuana is the right thing to do. Throwing Canadians in jail for small amounts of marijuana is just wrong. I deem this issue in the same light as prostitution, both are mostly moral in nature that need to be regulated to be made safer for those involved.
It is a waste of time to talk about legalizing Marijuana in isolation, it will never happen. We have to talk about it in terms of being SMART ON CRIME, not being TOUGH(STUPID) on CRIME.
i have left links on the face book page of
Stop the Violence BC and
Canadian Drug Policy Coalition
over the last year or so i have been gathering information
on the endocannabinoid system [e.c.s.]. though i cannot make links here
my web site is after the at symbol of my user name.
though my site is closed for a major redo i have left a up
page with links i have gathered on e.c.s.
its mind blowing.
E.C.S. = the endo cannibinoid system
our bodies produce the same chemicals
cannabinoids -that are in the marijuana plant.
we use them to regulate every thing in our bodies
even the way we think. marijuana is not a drug
it is in fact the most essential nutrient one can digest
[not smoke -digesting the oils]. there’s an excellent film by len richmond
called ‘what if cannabis cured cancer’ which is does. proven by a man from nova scotia who cured 100′s of people of cancer. Rick Simpson.
digesting cannabis oil is the cure in fact for many illnesses
i have links galore but i don’t think this comment area allows them.
as i tried ;p
Absolutely! Canada has the highest consumption rate of marijuana in the industrialised world, and the marijuana industry here is worth billions of dollars. Marijuana is not going anywhere, and a responsible government would be one that legalises and regulates it. Let the provinces create crown corporations reminiscent of the LCBO!
Let’s allow the responsible use of marijuana for adults, use the MASSIVE tax revenue to support our healthcare system, and use the money saved in our criminal system to help enforce laws that protect Canadians from crimes that actually create victims!
Don’t get me started..If you REALLY dig deep the current prohibitive laws are actually COMPLETELY CONSTITUTIONALLY ILLEGAL! Let’s get this simple plant OFF ALL LISTS & drag it out of the mud where it currently is..This is one of the most remarkable plants on the planet & the public MUST reverse the image now-GET EDUCATED & GET OCCUPIED-no one human has any right to tell another human they can or can not grow a natural plant for free, for starters.. I’ll leave it at that. Oh, fyi, ‘recreational’ use constitutes only 0.01% of this plant’s beneficial uses..Interesting that 0.01% is regarded as 100% in the general population’s mind. The time is NOW.
We the people are being and have been lied to, held under water as to the TRUE LIGHT this plant should be recognized for – the saviour of the planet as well as our own sorry asses..Any wafers only need to do themselves & everyone else a favour by WRITING A PROS & CONS list & pass the word on when it is realized how backward public perception is in its present state.
Law enforcement will certainly benefit from the ridding of ALL associated laws, people will rightfully have the freedom to plant/grow/harvest whatever we need or require, or simply purchase such like one would ginger root.
Mega jails, moronic diatribe from evangelical pulpits, are the true poison here. Again – the TIME IS NOW..to unravel the complex & seemingly overwhelming subterfuge we’ve been force-fed at the expense of our own civil liberties & self-healing avenues.
From youth to seniors, the education starts now – there really is no argument against this plant (see your pros & cons list) & it would be in everyone’s best interest to engage on this matter to bring a free, NON-ADDICTIVE, non-synthesized, non-toxic pain-management system to a life near YOU!
#2/
BTW, in the photo – the iconic ‘FAN LEAF’ – interesting, that that is the LEAST useful (post growth) part of the plant (outside of materials manufacturing) but the most recognized.. There is actually NOTHING useless of this plant – every molecule is a benefit to mankind & the planet we live on.
Shame on the Dupont family & all other monopolizing-minded government/corporate pole-stroking zealot who continues to keep the masses in the dark & blind-sided from the truth.
THE TIME HAS COME – & as I always knew it was ‘a commin’….
PASS THE WORD – ORGANIZE & PUT IN MOTION – the truth – as well, there is no ‘legalize’ or ‘decriminalize’ issues here – this plant is to be COMPLETELY & WHOLLY STRIPPED OF ALL CONTROL, TAXATION, LIMITS, PROHIBITION, MONOPOLIZING, INTENT TO MANIPULATE or DECEIVE the actual benefits IMMEDIATELY – notwithstanding the reversal of all existing criminal records & cases presently before the courts to properly reflect the reality & truth surrounding the current constitutionally ILLEGAL laws under which our lives have been & are being currently subject to.
This is an outrage & has to be concluded with haste. Canada needs a PRIME MINISTER – not an egomaniacal buffoon with a religious agenda..
By SUMMER 2012 – get this bus headed in the proper direction once-&-for-all..
YOU IN????
Starting … NOW!
ps 1/10,000 benefits: (pure cannabis oil on psoriasis will brighten your day – & shock the hell out of you as to why you can’t just make this or buy this for next-to-nothing as it costs very little to produce (sans black market/government lies) & will heal the skin in a matter of.. well, almost instantly, actually!
Go READ – TELL YOUR SENIOR FAMILY MEMBER there is a simple ingredient that will actually help them sleep, feel pain free – all from cannabis – & FREE TO GROW with the tomatoes & beans..
#3/
The day is soon – when this plant is as hyped as FRESH GINGER ROOT!
At the LPC-BC Annual Convention in Victoria last month, our grassroots policy process led to a number of resolutions being passed by over 300 delegates in attendance – including a proposal to legalize and regulate the cultivation and sale of cannabis. This policy was chosen as a priority resolution by Liberal Party members at the Victoria conference and the Young Liberals of Canada have kindly agreed to blend their existing resolution (#117) with the approved BC policy. Thanks YLC! Last week four former Vancouver Mayors (Larry Campbell, Sam Sullivan, Phillip Owen, Mike Harcourt) and the current one came out in support of the policy too.
David Hurford, LPC-BC Policy Chair
hmmmm…thanks for sharing this information…i’ve long held that this poor plant doesn’t get the respect it deserves…
whether a person subscibes to its’ use or not as an individual choice, it is , put simply, something that grows naturally in our environment, and should be accessed fairly like any other plant found in nature…
The wealth that could be distributed through its’ regulation by government is ‘mind-boggling’…
There are so many possibilities.
I personally support the “legalization, cultivation, distribution, and taxation of marijuana” by the Federal Government! Let’s get ‘er done in a way, like alcohol, controls and effective “pro-active” taxes are in place to supplement tax $$$ and support pro-active “abuse programs”. This is simple! ( .. or should be!??)
The link was missing strangely
Movie
Thrive
Just google it if its not here again
Looks like a lot of tinfoil hat UFO garbage from what I saw…
Sorry thats what you think
Its actually quite a bit more although yes they cover quite a bit
It is the most sane view of these types of movies including the Zeitgeist movies
It goes into much more if you give it a chance
But hey thanks for trying
I hope it gets some views as the bottom line with it gives some good ideas
Strangely it seems we can still vote and post?
We could not earlier
I would add this if I may?
It ties it all together I think
How we got here…where we are headed
More importantly it offers solutions and makes this issue to be as I know it is… just the tip of the iceberg
Just maybe as a human……..please watch
If you do take two hours and do anything for yourself
Watch this
What will you do???
“”"”the problem of course…. like usual…. is the free energy machines
Until more take their own energy independence seriously nothing will not change, nor can it
That old adage “” tune in …drop out”” comes to mind
At least here…. all bc hydro machines can still stay operating and in fact and only cost pennies to run
So this province is equipped to handle a revolution of sort’s best and still keep the lights on
I see much much more violence first before it ever comes to this movie but because of this movie I do now yes see the result”"”"
I guess what I am saying is I will continue to try to see real truth and honesty is front and center in the liberal rebuilding or I wont be part of it …as the big picture is my real agenda
We all need to wake up and whether you like it or not you will be forced to I think
This issue is as I say … just the tip of the iceberg….if we cant deal with this one with so much truth and fact …..we will never be taken seriously to deal with the rest of the obvious answers
The liberal party stands at a critical point and many are waiting to see if they in fact …get it !!
I hope you all get to see this movie
…and Good luck all !!!
tis soon the season
Follow the U.S, experience here and prepare a seriuos plan to manage the drug before going much further. I would suggest putting together a study group to resolve the issue but in the meantime at least decriminalize the use of small amounts and give the police the tools to keep users off the roads.
I support this resolution.
Just to build on the point about the former mayors of Vancouver, I thought I’d point out that there are both left-of-centre and right-of-centre politicians on that list. This is the kind of policy that appeals to thoughtful people all across the political spectrum, and at its core that’s what the Liberal Party should represent. We should strive to be the “Big Red Tent” that stands for thoughtful and rational and moral policies, and that isn’t beholden to any ideological straightjacket.
More freedom is better than less freedom. This resolution rocks!
PS
PLEASE CONTINUE TO VOTE RIGHT UP TO MIDNIGHT !!!
IT IS NOT OVER YET !!!!!
As the votes on these resolutions …now close…
I for one…would like to thank all of you for making this happen
After all the disappointments we have seen in the past decades
And with games still being played here we have over come again
Thank you all so very very much!! …. bravo !
All our groups have been involved here….every last one by my records
Nation wide support and involvement….
You know who you are so please congratulate yourselves and more importantly your teams !
I would also say though to have a look through most other resolutions here and notice we did do it our selves and notice who commented on those other resolutions and more importantly WHO DID NOT on ours
We will still…. I think… have a huge battle to actually get any help within this party as the “politicos” I think… just hold their nose and just tolerate us…. yet obviously ignore our resolution….on purpose
Shades of green and ndp come to my mind….. if we come here
But there is no green party any more…..(its the self possessed elley may party now) and the ndp to us now means “”now done party “””….its the liberals turn to lose us
Millions of votes can come if they are smart
Many would like us probably still ignored here I am sure and pretty much say so in other resolutions here
Sadly the stigma we all carry is all they really still see and sadly our fight will still continue here… I think any way…..YES that is until a real leader voices his confirmation of what we say here
We must now do it again within the party and stand up to “fake” liberals here that are really only concerned with optics
We must show them what we can do and have done
We will I know if they are not just fakes and cowards like the ndp turned out to be and as they have been and as some obviously still are
Now comes the real work if we are to continue building this party
Will they be worthy???
I am hopeful but not going to waste my time nor money as easily as I have in the past
We now await A SIGN
Are they liberals or are they not?
We shall see as we wait with baited breath
But yes we have again risen to the challenge and I for one am finally hopeful
Thank you all from the bottom of my heart !!
I salute each and every last one of you !!
it is high time we take marijuana off the criminal list. it should be a personal choice, and it does a lot more good then tobacco, just to think of those who need it more medical reasons. why deny them that opportunity to live a life without pain.
MaLa SaHan
Let me start by saying that I suport the resolution, and I hope that it passes.
I believe that Jonathan Toma is right that our southern neighbor is a stumbling block but not only on this subject,but a series of others as well. By standing up here in Canada (the best country in the world)for progresive polisies we can oppose neo-conservetives here and south, it would definatly steer the pot(ha ha),in this time of 1% vs. 99% this might not be so easy to oppose even in the US.
I understand that over half our population has tried marijuana.We can not accept to have them all be criminelized.
As we are looking for relavence with Canadian electorate and a way to mobilize, we need to stand for some real principals that resonate with Canadians.This could be a way to do the right thing,regain the world’s respect and become a world leaders again,and help canadians fix our bottom line in no small part,and at last but not least to find the militants from coast to coast to coast that we desperatly need to mobilize the public so that we can regain the iniatiative. We have done this before ( the international non aliegne movement, saying that police has no bussiness in our bedrooms or bringing on the quiet revolution that saved Canada, health care etc.etc.etc.)we have been courages in the past and we have only gained from our courage.
Lets find the courage of our and canadian convictions and by doing so save the country.
As long is the THC and the CBD are regulated as with alcohol, legalizing it is better than the current alternative.
I have no personal wish to alter reality, but for those who do, there isn’t much difference in damage between the two. There will always be addicts and abusers.
CBC POLL
Should marijuana be legalized in Canada?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2011/11/should-marijuana-be-legalized-in-canada.html#pd_a_5698880
Four former mayors of Vancouver have signed an open letter calling for the legalization of pot, saying “marijuana prohibition is — without question — a failed policy.”
Mike Harcourt, Philip Owen, Larry Campbell and Sam Sullivan have endorsed the Stop the Violence BC coalition, a group that favours legalizing marijuana to reduce gang violence.
The letter goes on to say that prohibiting pot is “creating violent, gang-related crime in our communities and fear among our citizens, and adding financial costs for all levels of government at a time when we can least afford them.”
The coalition recently released a survey that suggested most people in B.C. oppose current marijuana laws.
Do you? Why or why not? What reasons would you give for ending or upholding the prohibition of marijuana in Canada? Let us know what you think.
Two day Tally ?
Thank you for voting!
Yes. 92.95% (14,932 votes)
No. 5.74% (922 votes)
I’m not sure. 1.31% (210 votes)
Total Votes: 16,064
ps
I certainly hope I have not just scared some away by telling the truth about what actually goes on by even our own government as people stand up?
Yes it is and has been torturous and very bleak and lonely ….beatings … jailings…audits…lost jobs/loans…..discrimination in leaps and bounds…yes
As if any of it should be hidden???
If so you are condoning terrorism in your own country and like politicians…cowards and willfully ignorant
In 4 days this chance to educate those in charge here will be over
If you dont do it…WHO WILL??
When they come for you….remember when you could have done something
I rest my case
Please help here for all those just like us already in jail and those soon headed there
And after November 30 if nothing does happen most likely I would like to say I hope you all do remember and then reward those who should be rewarded and as they have been in recent elections
Cheers
Over 50 Years later and still no change
Welcome back Dan !
I am assuming you of course …asked ??…why your name is gone down below and they are just getting right on adding it back up ? Right???
Whew….I am relieved of course ??
Hahaha
I guess as its appropriate to maybe shed some light for my suspicious nature ?…
Not that going to jail as an innocent man …already and being bankrupted with it would not make any one suspicious in the future …but ……and as a way to put it out there… I guess… sure why not
Most of course don’t understand what I and others have been up against?
What the other side does……openly in fact…to try and shut us up
Yes I am sure most would question how it could happen in a country like canada
As some may know…
Sept 4 2008 I was politically assassinated with some old two sentence comment out of hundreds in the complete comment …taken out of context
Something not even said by me …
The lines above …??
”””” you cops are on borrowed time as far as being the enforcers of bad laws and being used as society’s GOONS.
YOU soon will be seen as relevant again and as important as you used to be ,a pillar of the community. i realize how hard it would be to enforce stupid laws and i know i could not have thrown Rosa Parks from the bus. must be a redneck gene somewhere.
if we want to talk about laws,,why don’t you care that your country started an illegal war in Iraq,,arrest some one you law racists!!!!
everyone knows but you guys whats going to happen and its way over due””””
The lines below it……???
””””half your country’s income squandered on the military every year and you have children going to bed hungry every night disgusting!
the real truth about who did what and why will come out trust me.””””
http://www.frostcloud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9194&page=28
and POOOOOF …….I was removed as a federal candidate for the greens
I was in at least 600 newspapers at last count that day
TV…. Radio… the full meal deal… trust me….I was david ahenaques peer or some such drivel ….a step below hermen ghering I think
I repeated a comment someone in a 911 conspiracy movie had said and it even said that and even though the greens had even cleared me of the exact same comment 18 months earlier…… even confirmed by a local newspaper ….it was then trumpeted again nation wide as new news and I was dumped as a candidate
Yes as Elizabeth went about libelling me not once but twice 12 days later…see she had just recieved that floor crosser blair wilson and of course a cannabis activist no matter how hard working nor effective was now mere baggage ….I guess
(I to this day dont know why she was complicate with harper maybe he was going to give her a senate seat like she thought dion was???)
But again what some dont know is that this let her out of her video taped promise to bring up cannabis in the TV Debates
That was if me and my groups some how raised a big enough stink and got her in the TV Debates…..(another story)
But what most don’t also understand…. is that while all this was taking place something was taking over our phones and internet….both my wifes and mine that day
Typing backwards and in other languages…mine flashed ***QUIT**** in huge letters…and they did it all by themselves
Two computer shops have since asked jokingly if I was attacked by the FBI …etc… as they of course cant fix em
Suffice to say I have had two police forces here at a time many times shaking me down here for my political work it goes with out question
Even people that stood up for me on line that night were met on the highway 2 hours later …coincidently….. and searched and charged…. yes with even 3 cruisers in the middle of Alberta no where land ….
Some are naive and don’t connect dots but I have so many dots even the blind could see the image its so pronounce …… if they ever bothered to actually looked
I am not by any stretch of the imagination surprised by much any more
As the dust settled and we regained our phones etc I did as I did in the financial world and spent a very long time investigating and searching
At the end of the tunnel I determined and proved with saved web pages that my attacker only had two friends or connections …only two
One was the man I used as I brought the green party out of the closet about cannabis on their biggest all time blogs as we came to see that we should yes re legalize cannabis and as they announced Oct 11 2007
He … a former conservative candidate …owned Blogging Tories web site where I had spent years fighting them as we educated their members and changed their minds and they came around to thinking decriminalizing cannabis was the right answer …. even against the site owners political wishes…Yes we can say I was a burr in his saddle etc
Th second name was and is prime minister of this country
shavluk.com has the page by the way
I could and should write a book
Police have waited for me at the end of the road here and given me a ticket for going through a stop sign on a street with no stop sign…I kid you not…I had announced I would go into court and file this or that and I guess they thought a delay would hurt me???
They even wrote down it happened in a different city and street
I was carrying a concealed camera and said so later….they didnt show up in court and had been successful delaying me and costing me two days pay to fight it
Not sure even how many attacks I have officially taken now any more but the only shake down that bothered me was when my youngest son sitting inside using our video surveilence system was the only thing that freed me after we watched them drag the scent dog by a chain to my compounds gate and then start to charge me for stealing gas
I explained we had not even been there all day as we had spent 8 hours at the local polls working as a volunteer for the ndp and they could confirm it quickly if they cared
But in the end it was only when I pointed out that all they had already done was recorded by my son up above them at that window
Thank god !
Again…. a day after I called jack Layton a coward and a hypocrite on the internet and resigned from them …..right after the 2006 Quebec City Convention….. the rcmp and delta police both screeched in here and shook us down and said I had threatened to cut up some ones child into little pieces !!!
Can you imagine ??? !!
When lawyers like kirk tousaw later checked the occurrence numbers given freely by two police departments did not even exist as I had already found out previously myself
I give all this…. so you Dan understand … I hope?
People have absolutely no clue … we live in a cesspool of corruption and greed in a lot of ways and the forces against this type of answer to solve this issue would sooner shoot people like me than have people wake up and demand the sane answer
If you think it sounds crazy …??
Try to live it as your wife is crying in fear after some attacks Sir
The rcmp would be nothing without the drug trade lets face it and were built with prohibition in the first place
I make absolutely no bones about my openness and candour and challenge anyone to make me prove any of it…!! GLADLY
Sadly I know no one cares unless it happens to some one they know
I get nothing from doing this except the thought that maybe some Canadians will start to wake up and maybe get informed and realize they are creating life long struggles for local children who are just unlucky enough to be the latest one holding a harmless joint of a plant that is not poison nor even harmful and that some person has determined they must be ruined for it and destroyed because they just happen to have gotten caught
And yet Presidents of the USA who have done the same exact thing and are just excused after the fact and then just use that statement to make jokes at dinner parties
”””I didn’t inhale hahhahhaha”””…..
Sorry you would not inhale for a bit longer if you said that in my face and if I had any say in the matter ….hypocrite !
Sorry to any offended by my style ….soon enough I am sure we all can just go back to sleep as the liberals will I am sure determine that this issue is just too political and they of course cant deal with political issues…. I mean come on eh….what do you think they are???
I am glad to see you back Dan…..
I am saddened this issue does not get huge enough numbers to convince liberals to stop being cowards as the whole country now wishes they would and wake up
I will be also saddened when this glimmer of hope is over and forgotten like so many other times
Relax, Mr SHAVLUK… as I’ve said to my real boss on many an occasion… “Don’t pay the ransom… I escaped!!!” :-)
Man oh man… a guy can’t even work outta town for a few days without the sky falling :-)
Professional police agencies do NOT muzzle independent thought… at least not since a certain Liberal Prime Minister (PET) enshrined freedom of speech within our Charter… we most definitely live in the BEST country in this world, folks!!!
I believe I’ve made my personal position on this issue abundantly clear within my two previous posts.. very pleased to see new perspectives joining this discussion. I look forward to continued lively debate on this issue. I’ve had MY say… we need to hear from many others on this topic.
As I mentioned earlier, the economic implications of legalization & regulation of cannabis are, quite frankly, difficult to fully appreciate. One interesting thought would be to dedicate the first profits to addressing our First Nations’ infrastructure issues country-wide… given that it was the Kelowna Accord that first went “up in smoke” when the Conservatives won their first minority government.
Best to all…
mulligan
To those who have brought up claims that cannabis is a cause of schizophrenia, the evidence tends to refute those claims.
Over the last 20 years, there has been a steady, slow decline in schizophrenia rates in Britain, while in the same period there has been a steady increase in cannabis use.
I have seen a number of (government funded) studies that attempted to infer causality from associational statistics. Karl Pearson, the father of statistical mathematics, would have flunked everybody who makes that mistake. As an example, consider the fact that every morning, just before the sun rises, the cock crows. Based upon the perfect association and the time relationship of the events, would you infer that the rooster crow causes the sun to rise? Such inference errors are very common in medical literature.
Correct causal inference generally requires very carefully designed experiments and the use of Bayesian statistical methods. When proper statistical methods are brought to bear, it is consistently found that cannabis use is unlikely to *cause* schizophrenia.
On the other hand, alcohol use is behind a huge fraction of mental health problems, yet we do not interfere with individual choice.
Liberals should support this resolution because to do otherwise perpetuates the racist and religious prejudices that historians tell us gave rise to cannabis prohibition in the first place.
Finally, I do think the Party of Laurier should consider the fact that Laurier opposed alcohol prohibition, based both on liberal principles and on the anticipated rise in organized crime. Lsurier was right, and exactly the same reasoning applies to the equally foolish prohibition against cannabis.
Interesting article on drug legalization in Portugal and Netherlands. Here is one quote:
“Portugal decriminalized possession of all drugs in 2001. The outcome, after nearly a decade, according to a study published in the November issue of the British Journal of Criminology: less teen drug use, fewer HIV infections, fewer AIDS cases and more drugs seized by law enforcement. Adult drug use rates did slightly increase — but this increase was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug policies. The use of drugs by injection declined.”
- http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2011/11/24/the-effectiveness-of-the-war-on-drugs-vs-legalization-in-portugal-the-netherlands/
LIBERALS BETTER HURRY OR THEIR ISSUE WILL BE MOOT OR STOLEN…..
SEE THIS PLEASE AND UNDER STAND OWEN USED TO BE 180 DEGREES OPPOSITE TO THIS POLICY
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2011/11/23/four-ex-vancouver-mayors-wanted-pot-legalized/
NO BETTER TIME THAN THIS PEOPLE….WHO WILL HELP?
IT IS NOT A LOOSER POLICY…NOT AN UNSAVORY POLICY
IT IS THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG TO FIGHT BACK AND REGAIN HUMAN RIGHTS
The thing I love about this policy is how the revenue it generates enable us to cut taxes for the poor, increase social spending and reduce the deficit all at the same time. This is a big winner.
Anyone but me notice Dan Mulligans post now says this…..
……..”"”said on Nov 14, 2011 at 8:27 pm “”"
There is no “said” talking any where here
Dan Mulligan’s name is now removed
Mr 28 years in policing
Some sort of change of mind???
Police Union?
You betcha !!! I would guess that or some small slight pension cheque slip ups more likely
Dont forget who butters your bread !!! I am sure was tossed around
Some one applied a little pressure like I know they can and poof now no danny boy here on the record any more
Hahhaha…I again say I have seen it all before
The powers against human rights and freedom are very powerful
They can spend millions openly as graft and corruption in their riding pretending G 8 yet the sheeple do nothing as the media is owned and silenced and House is coming on hahhaha
Right now they are telling you the “”occupy movement “” is over and had their say even though they ignored them unless some one died in a tent
As I say I am not very hopeful these days as I am pretty sure the liberals dont actually want to win if it means being different than what they were in the past ….game players
Its a sad day for canada ……please have a look and see that dan has been muzzled obviously
Come get your cheque all is forgiven …..LOL
Cheers all
I cant just leave it with that post on top as it is not reflective of most of the resolution
So I will say more
Now not that I think it killed him… I know it didnt ……as I did a 40 day fast myself on only water
I know what killed him….again cause I have been there
Sitting and waiting for jail killed him and his heart
Dont doubt for one second
How will my kids adjust
Who will see to their needs
Who will feed the dog
Where will your stuff go….????
Thousands of stressfully thoughts involved before you even get to the real so called punishment
Its scary if you have never been
Not if you have
A moment of reflection please canada…see the fruits of your ignorance and think of his children and grand children
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Marijuana+hunger+striker+Istvan+Marton+dies/5746489/story.html
A moment for Istvan Marton
Thank you canada….do you feel safer now???
How do we sell legalizing recreational drug? Which ones? We back that up with the toughess, set of laws on the books. No get out of jail cards, for drug dealers, importers, etc. Any thing not under the recreational category goes to the addiction side. Perscription drugs.
How, would we as the LPC pitch to the public making drug addition a disease to be treated instead of a prision term? How, would we house, feed, cloth these people. How do you put a value on hte non-committing of a crime?
How could we attack (we don’t want to be put on the defensive here) the HARPERMENT of CANADA’s big dumb dork approch to the drug problem?
@ Richard.
Quote: “How, would we as the LPC pitch to the public making drug addition a disease to be treated instead of a prision term? How, would we house, feed, cloth these people. How do you put a value on hte non-committing of a crime?”
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. THIS is the discussion we need to bring to the convention.
Can you imagine the effect of putting the $$$ Harper is going to spend on prisons and enforcement into TREATMENT and getting addicts off hard drugs?
Stunning concept… I know.
@ Richard… making the pitch for legalization and treatment.
This is how I would word.
1) Acknowledge that the individual is PERSONALLY responsible for their actions. This will please BLUE types and some Liberals.
2) Acknowledge that society has a SOCIAL responsibility to help those who have become addicts get treatment, not judgement.
This does two things as I highlighted.
It acknowledge personal actions in life are ones own. They choose to do drugs. They must confront that choice that led them to addiction.
It acknowledges that even if one is responsible for ones actions… that DOES NOT allow society to judge and condemn them to a prison cell…. which solves nothing.
In short…
Responsibility… and care… are the tone the legislation should set.
Every Canadian will support such legislation. It is the BALANCED approach… the Liberal way.
Hey we are loosing focus here! Let have some solid ideas and discussion about the drug problem.
Sorry sonny you didnt hit any nerves at all
I make all my own payments and your opinion is just that
To do what I do shows I have skin thicker than some peoples brains
Guess what sonny 100 % …yes catch that 100 % of any like me have been get this ..you ready for it ??….yes sonny we were all KIDS at one point too
Did you read what I said about the suicide statistics with cannabis using males adolescents??
We will leave it at you confused and thinking years in means absolutely anything
Years in is irrelevant if its for the wrong reasons and I have seen some couple who should have divorced as their cowardice was copied by their children
Thank goodness we only need 37 % to govern as harpercrite has shown us its obvious we wont please religious zealots with this policy nor their religious comic book heros
If you are including cannabis users in your little self deduced formula of yours yes I disagree with you and say even if you were correct..which you are not…the current cowardly policy of the liberals is not the answer
And yours is a non answer
We have enough of those
Maybe you should work at getting prohibition extended to include divorce??
Then you can see real damage to kids in some cases
Sorry but not all people who experiment are evil or sick nor flawed
They are human beings…human be ings…get me?
Oh and thank you too….I hope you dont take more of what I have tried to say …wrong so I will just stop saying to you just to lessen that chance
I understand I dont reach all…I am not perfect and have absolutely no intention to be so
cheers
@ Shavluk.
Quote: “Maybe you should work at getting prohibition extended to include divorce??”
How do you come up with this? Can you not read. I am FOR the DECRIMINALIZATION of marijuana.
How did you deduce I want to prohibit divorce? I am for LESS interference in peoples lives, not more. I would like to see a VOLUNTARY clinic for distribution of harder drugs… but ONLY if we actually SUPPORT people to kick their addictions with REAL detox and life enhancing rehabilitation.
Quote: “I hadnt even mentioned the number one cause of deaths of young men outside of accidents is actually suicide…yet… negligible numbers to those young men who have tried cannabis….bizarre eh?”
Yes… I have now read it. So… the answer to suicide is marijuana? Is this your personal opinion. If I ever feel down.. I should NUMB myself instead of searching for the ROOT cause of my depression and FACING THE TRUTH of my life?
If you need to compare SUICIDE deaths to cannabis use in order to justify it… I think that alone speaks VOLUMES as to the psychology of users.
I am sorry your use has left a black mark on your life in preventing you to get jobs. That is truly a shame. I would also advocate with decriminalization that all former convictions for what is now illegal, can apply for a review and pardon.
Does that sit ok with you “sonny?”
I just advocated the removal of BOTH cannabis illegality and former convictions for crimes that are now legal.
Look. It seems you have a problem with “rules” that you don’t want to follow. If someone believes there are such things as MORAL laws… that DOES NOT mean they should be enforced on other people. YOU have to choose your actions in life… and if MORAL LAW/KARMA happens to deal you a bad hand… I don’t need to force anyone to believe what I do about morality.
I don’t want this thread hijacked on a moral discussion about drug use. Each will have their own personal opinion on whether drugs are “good” for society to be exposed to.
So… let’s keep the FOCUS on not judging people for the failings or recreation… however you wish to interpret it… and create a society where people are free to live as they wish AND have resources to turn to if addiction becomes a real problem.
Quote: “Oh and thank you too….I hope you dont take more of what I have tried to say …wrong so I will just stop saying to you just to lessen that chance”
Wrong or right… I am just trying to UNDERSTAND what you are saying. The tone is one of self-righteous, elder, “no one can tell me what I can or cannot do with my life”… sprinkled with rambling personal stump speech quotes and finishes with a condemnation of anyone (such as myself) who might suggest a deeper psychological issue behind drug use which… EVERY statistic will show is in the majority of cases to be precisely that… a coping mechanism.
Then again… that sounds like a lot of pot smokers I have met in my life. Pot DOES affect your brain. In fact… it just might make you
The Downside of High
http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureofthings/2010/downsideofhigh/
“Teenagers who start smoking marijuana before the age of sixteen are four times more likely to become schizophrenic. That’s the startling conclusion of some of the world’s top schizophrenia experts, whose research is featured in the new documentary The Downside of High.”
So… go right ahead. I want you to be FREE to choose to put whatever you want in your body. The information is out there. I don’t need the government to impose any rules on anybody… God/karma seems a pretty good judge and jury for most people. If you continue to ignore the laws that govern your own health and vitality… that is your choice.
No one… no one… is going to advocate cannabis use is akin to good exercise, good food, and a sound mind.
As for being perfect… we were born so… and only through man’s choice, does he fall from the divine creature he was meant to be.
Again… I am FOR legalizing marijuana and clinical access and treatment for harder drugs. If you would stop hitting that bong just once… you might realize I am ON YOUR SIDE!
Hey Curtis
First off I should apologize for my tone towards you
You of course are just completely unaware of lots of things I am dealing with right now and have dealt with
I went to jail and didnt see my kids as an innocent man framed for traficking for 8 grams of cannabis… twenty years ago just for in my opinion …talking about police murdering Saskatchewan First Nations peoples by leaving them out of town to freeze to death (Pre Stonechild case)
I am not your enemy nor you mine
But I tell you point blank I have spent 21 years knowing this issue inside and out and doing the necessary research to back up my claims and spent the money to back up my efforts north american wide politically and as I have said been in every election I can here in canada
# 1 I am busy going bankrupt as the victim of two libels by elizabeth may and the soon dead green party that no reporter reports about…on purpose
elley may as I call her just friday sent me a letter saying they wont bankrupt me with all the legal fees they promised to do after I sued for libel if I take down all my you tube videos etc showing her lies and libels……go see them please
She filed Sworn Court Affidavits proven in court as LIES and right now has a lie on her webpage we are probably going to sue her again for
She got caught in court lying and saying they didnt alter a Press Release Libelling me and I pointed out from the stand she forgot to take down her facebook one that still had the original Libel and made her look like the LIAR I know she is
She called the police the day after I announced I myself would run against her in election and said I threatened to kill her or harm her
Had that been me according to police I would have been jailed
They told me she is someone and I am not and that she has political pull high up trying to help silence me because of the cannabis issue
I have tons video recorded ..even court rooms and judges that some day will expose some who should be exposed
There are many you tube videos explaining more.
And as she is spending members money and not her own and as she has the help of the harpercrites to destroy me because of the noted fear they have of my success I know its going to only get much uglier as I probably end up back in jail for trying to re clear my very good name
This may help or just google
http://saskboy.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/conservatives-feeling-green-heat-in-sgi/
# 2 I dont use a bong nor am I a cheeseburger addict I was only being dramatic and making a point and adding what I thought was humour
I had never even tried cannabis until I was 27 with 7 and 6 year old children and I must say it saved my life by making me aware I had one
# 3 There is no proof about what you say about mental illness and cannabis and I of course must burst your bubbles because to us the issue as I say is one of life and death and certainly not about taking legal toxic harmful synthetic drugs instead of natural non toxic illegal ones
Because some one made them illegal to hurt mexican immigration does not mean they are harmful or even wrong to use….read the bible some know it was used then
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/151776/debunking_the_myth_of_a_link_between_marijuana_and_mental_illness?page=entire
“”"”"For example, authors of a 2009 study published in Schizophrenia Research said definitively that increased cannabis use by the public has not been followed by a proportional rise in diagnoses of schizophrenia or psychosis. Investigators at the Keele University Medical School in Britain compared trends in marijuana use and incidences of schizophrenia in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005. Researchers reported that the “incidence and prevalence of schizophrenia and psychoses were either stable or declining” during this period, even the use of cannabis among the general population was rising.”"”"”
# 4 I appreciate your participation here but I will not stand idly by well what I consider lies are being spread….show us the bodies Sir…show us the proof of what you say…I say it is B S and stand with SCIENCE not a bible or some sick twisted bullying nature that dislikes things they know nothing about
# 5 Maybe please read this
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/Gardner+myth+potent/5704851/story.html
Lies are no reason to think others have any rights to destroy others lives over personal choice
But yes lets get back to what this is about helping liberals find answers and then guts shall we?
I know I am probably just wasting my time because I know how much money is made jailing people and destroying them
They say it costs $88,000 a year for Provincial jail and $109,000 a year for Federal time….I laugh and said in elections why would you do that instead of maybe $10,000 a year for affordable housing or $10,000 for an education ???……I know why now….many makes their livelihoods by destroying lives and that is a legitimate business to what ? at least 36 % of voters right?
DISGUSTING I KNOW
Please lets all try to get a bit more educated before we blow this chance that should of course be done as is known to any sane reasonable person
I am far from your enemy
To some of you I missed….thank you for again your sane and rational views
And ….WOW
Oh my …..Curtis Carlson
What glib back ground do you come from?
For the sake of all this I will just maybe put a disclaimer here and say you must mean heroin or crystal meth or cocaine ??? Of the illegal ones …and alcohol fat and sugar of the legal?
Yes???
If you want me to think to add cannabis??
Hahhaha ….well sorry
Are you going to tell us willy nelson smokes cannabis because he has issues about how he was raised?
I am of course sorry to have to say this but I disagree with your comments then
To me its like saying I eat cheeseburgers cause my parents divorced and I am an addict?
Don’t get me wrong …nothing kills more people than cheeseburgers in this country don’t forget …heart disease cancer stroke you name it…all cheeseburger related if the truth be told
but I eat cheeseburgers because I love them
Some can call it an addiction ……wont change a thing …I wont shed a mere tear
You can only be called an addict when you are trying to quit something and cant…not when others bibles tell them so and they call you one
Quit?
I am not and have absolutely no intention to do so
Even in jail guards make sure you never run out …see as an illegal substance everyone knows anyone can make money on it
Its not rocket science
I am sure if cheeseburgers become prohibited and we get the MEA instead of the DEA many will be looking at a long stretch in that friendly penal system
I dispute your thinking and point out that hundreds of things you may not realize are actually drugs in some definition based on peoples use of them
Anyone pretending people like Louis Armstrong or Mark Twain used cannabis because they had issues is missing the obvious
Michael Phelps ….You remember him?
He is the fellow they lambasted in the media after it was discovered he was a pothead and they publicised pictures of him with a bong ??
He was in the Athens and Beijing Olympics and became the most successful athlete at THOSE OLYMPICS !! with a total of 16 medals
He is one medal away from being the most successful Olympian of all time !!
In two Olympics ONLY he has twice equalled the record eight medals of any type at a single Olympics achieved by Soviet gymnast Alexander Dityatin at the 1980 Moscow Summer Games. His five golds in individual events tied the single Games record set by compatriot Eric Heiden in the 1980 Winter Olympics and equaled by Vitaly Scherbo at the 1992 Summer Games. Phelps holds the record for the most gold medals EVER won in a single Olympics; his eight at the 2008 Beijing Games surpassed American swimmer Mark Spitz’s seven-gold performance at Munich in 1972. Phelps’ Olympic medal total is second only to the 18 Soviet gymnast Larisa Latynina won over three Olympics, including nine gold. Furthermore, he holds the all-time record for most individual gold Olympic medals, at nine.
And some would think smoking cannabis to be like smoking tobacco on the lungs as the fake science would have you believe when in fact the opposite is obviously true
How about Dan Aykrod … Carl Sagan …. Pierre Burton … Pierre Trudeau … Morgan Freeman … Michael Bloomberg the mayor of new york … Ted Turner … Woody Harroldson … Arnold Schwarzenegger …. Stephen King…. William F. Buckley
The list could go for miles
You ever hear of Sir Richard Branson??
How about the richest human on the planet Bill Gates
You going to tell us he is a failure?
I am sorry I needed to reply to the tone your posts sets
http://www.veryimportantpotheads.com/
I’ll have none of it !!
Some of you get it and some dont obviously
This says it so true
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Tories+crime+legislation+turns+teens+sharing+marijuana+into+organized+criminals/5733869/story.html
With this part
“”"The answer, says pollster Frank Graves, is complicated but lies partly with a politically-shrewd government appealing to its base and to an aging population that craves moral certainty. And, unlike the majority of young Canadians, they vote.
“They tend to be anti-intellectual, anti-science and with little interest in debating the evidence or listening to expert opinion,” says Graves. “Many simply want people who do bad things to be severely punished whether it makes streets safer or not.”
Please people quit the boogy man stories and wise up you are wasting 30 % of all your taxes chasing someone’s grandchildren …….for what??..their health ???
I hope the liberals are as smart as I think they are…..for all our sakes
Cheers
Wow Shavluk yourself. :-)
I don’t even know where to begin.
Logic. Sugar/fat (i.e. cheeseburgers) and drugs. Fail… Paremindies 101 for not comparing like to like.
I can’t even tell if you disagree with me. I support legalization of marijuana so the rant on the number of people in high profile that use was pointless and redundant.
As for harder drugs… a clinic is what I advise, not outright selling. Use a little common sense.
As for your stellar individuals on pot who are not coping with the ‘bogey man’ of mental illness… fine. Again… let’s compare like to like as LOGIC dictates for accurate reasoning and deductions.
“The statistics on teen depression are sobering. Studies indicate that one in five children have some sort of mental, behavioral, or emotional problem, and that one in ten may have a serious emotional problem. Among adolescents, one in eight may suffer from depression. Of all these children and teens struggling with emotional and behavioral problems, a mere 30% receive any sort of intervention or treatment. The other 70% simply struggle through the pain of mental illness or emotional turmoil, doing their best to make it to adulthood.”
- http://www.about-teen-depression.com/depression-statistics.html
Gee. I wonder how kids cope? Cheeseburgers!!! Yah… that must be it.
Dude… if you want to hit the bong.. I ain’t stopping you. So chill.
If YOU feel the need to compare your marijuana use to the “stars”… go right ahead. But many studies show those people are also of the most messed up and depressed type as well.
I have never met a pothead… that did not have some problem in life their were coping for. My totally biased opinion and in a free country, I can express it. Glad you expressed yours… now to each there own.
As for where I come from?
Parents married 40+ years. All in my family, both sides, are still married. Out of 14 of 16 family and direct relatives… all still married. Many kids. No trouble with drugs, not a one. NONE are religious except one side of the family and that accounts for 3 couples. I myself believe in God… the concept… and subscribe to no particular religion but I do have my influences… Islam, Sikhism, Taoism and Buddhism. No suicides in the family. No depression other than normal life trials and tribulations. Only a few smokers and most of them are quitting.
You can keep your hollywood and corporate tycon fellow bong hitters as mentors and idols… I’ll keep my family thank you.
To quote shakespeare… “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
If I have triggered latent ire at MORAL questioning of your habits… those are issues YOU have to deal with… not me. We all go back to the same place… you with your karma… me with mine.
Thank you for the comment.
It’s high time we can buy marijuana from an LCBO-like establishment. Prohibition didn’t work, and keeping plant illegal is preposterous!
@ Richard
I can see your passion for doing something about drugs and our kids. This is a multifaceted problem with no easy solution.
First… we cant solve any problem without knowing the facts. If you want to talk of denial, here is the biggest river in Egypt you will find…
Our government is in the drug trade. Maybe not Canada, but I bet if you look hard enough, you will find it.
THE CIA DRUG DEALERS BUSTED, FINALLY. Michael Ruppert
This is reality folks. The “war on drugs” is a sham. It is a business and the USA and CIA are the owners and operators.
That is the root, now what about the branches.
There is a major problem at home. Divorce… has destroyed the family. There is ZERO stability in many kids lives. Church… was a community bond of all classes and types. I am not advocating religion although I do personally believe in God, but the faith of the religious minded community engendered knowledge of and concern for the welfare of Dick and Jane, no matter whose kids they were. Religion also advocates a role for mother and father, husband and wife, as a team, as partners, in raising children. Mom… was at home, or at least she was when I was growing up. Who was the first person I could turn to with a problem? Mom and Dad. Where is that support now? Both parents work… so Facebook friends and TV become the substitute. This too cannot be fixed overnight, but secular and feminist ideology suggests, “the family” is a model for society that is obsolete and oppressive. Maybe we should instead ask our kids… if they would like BOTH Mom and Dad in their lives and ONE parent at home, usually the mother, for guidance and support.
Drugs… are a pain killer. Drugs… numb the senses. Drugs… take you away from life and make you forget the pain and hurt and fear and depression.
Drugs… are what children are using in record numbers to NUMB THEMSELVES to society. To FEEL NOTHING for life or for their own soul.
You want to get kids off drugs?
Make it “uncool” by making it legal and affordable. The whole point of doing drugs is the psychological stimulus of belonging to the in crowd, to people who accept you. If your parents don’t, who are you going to turn to?
Make it cheap, clean and easy to access… and the addicted WILL NOT commit crimes. This has been proven with study after study
That said… the Vancouver Police have said the free needle clinic has only made things worse in the downtown core. I believe, that is because while there is emphasis on helping addicts get clean, there is no FORCED program of detox and social support.
I think we need to “get tough”… not with incarceration and jail terms as the Cons would believe… but with money spent on a TRUE detox and rehabilitation program. Not some volunteer basis respecting the ‘rights’ of the individual. Drug addiction… is a SOCIAL PROBLEM, not an individual one. We ALL suffer because of it, so it is up to society, not the individual who has clearly failed to look out for themselves, to get clean and back on their feet.
No addict… wants to be an addict. Why ask them if they would “like” to get clean and leave it up to them? If an addict knows they will get the support they need… get clean… and have the support to re-integrate their lives into society… they will line up. As it is, these voluntary clinics are underfunded and still socially looked down upon. If people would just put away THEIR moral judgements of such people and realize they need HELP… we could do a lot I think with a country wide program of detox and rehabilitation.
I understand the need for an addict to “buy in” to his own recovery… but if it is ALWAYS left up to him or her… they will ultimately fail.
Addicts… need the tough love of a parent, not a jail cell.
Fund a program that would provide drugs at minimal cost, this should NOT be free, and you will begin to remove the cancer at its source.
Preventing kids from getting into drugs… will be harder. Even with low fee clinics, most normal kids may still opt for street sellers. But with legalization, it will no longer be behind closed doors and in back alleys. It will be open and both the public and parents will be aware of what is going on.
Alcohol… was once illegal and look at the mess (and the profit) it created.
I think it is high time (pun intended) to let adults decide for themselves what they wish to put into their bodies or not.
Over time… drugs will remain a problem, much like alcoholism. But at least… there can be awareness and programs to help just like with alcoholism.
Right now… under the Cons… all our kids are going to receive is a jail cell and a criminal record for simply trying to fit in and numb the pain of broken homes and strained parental relations.
This problem… starts at home… and it is high time adults started realizing that no matter how “good” they think they have been as a parent, if your kid is into drugs, it is because they are MISSING something at home.
I never for even one second considered taking drugs. That was because the love of my parents was always there, anytime, day or night, to talk about anything.
If your kid is not talking to you… THAT IS A GLARING SIGN something is wrong at home.
If families would SLOW DOWN… take the TV out of the kitchen… and eat ONE MEAL A DAY together… AS A FAMILY… statistics have shown drug and teen sex rates drop like a stone.
The government can’t mandate individuals to become better parents and families… but if we don’t look at our so called “modern and progressive” secular society of distraction, debt, and depression… nothing we do… will save our kids from drugs.
If your kid is doing drugs… look in the mirror. Denial… at its most potent and painful.
I have a feeling I will get a lot of flack for saying that… but the truth was never a sweet pill to swallow. Just as Socrates.
SMART ON CRIME
To deny the existance of a drug problem in our society, is to put your head in the sand.
Deinal is not the answer, so give us some solid options.
WHO DO YOU WANT SELLING YOUR DRUGS TO YOUR KITS AND GRAND KIDS. THAT ANSWER IS EASY. NO ONE!!
WHEN YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER IS HOOKED. YOU WANT HER/HIM GETTING A FIX ON THE STREET CORNER FOR $20.
So let us here your suggestions. Denial will not make the problem go away.
@shavluk
I am wondering, and I am directing this at you because you are one of the most vocal on this issue, so your opinions and knowledge carry some weight with how I perceive the righteousness of this issue, if you could inform me of the following.
{{ Thank you L Hough :
I will try and please excuse how I do so with the copy and paste of your post here
( I am one of the many founders of the Marijuana Party and have spent as I say over 20 years attempting to do what I am attempting to do here so yes thank you for even asking) ( if we do not ask we will never know the truth and continue the harm because of that }}
1. – unlike alcohol, I understand growing cannabis is fairly straightforward (or perhaps even just not so complicated), so how are we to regulate the sale and purchase of a government endorsed product?
{{{{{{{ Like any other “legal” industry
We set rules …boundaries and goals …we establish a level playing field and set parameters of production
The wine model or alcohol model is a comparison ……we are all free now to make our own at home yet the vast majority do not bother to do so and rightly so as commercial enterprise is far and away more qualified to do it more consistently and for lower costs with economies of scale
Over time I believe most would not bother trying to grow it themselves with commercial strains readily available for reasonable dollars at liquor stores or even coffee shops
Imagine though for a second if alcohol was further taxed with these huge SIN TAX’S as suggested by some with cannabis?
Of course with the resulting manufactured pricing and no competition an underground economy would of course spring up again to take advantage …it already happened remember?
We need to remember to not slap on “moral taxation” if we are serious about removing machine guns and crime from the equation and letting markets adjust themselves
Unlike what we did with alcohol in the 30’s though… I would not like to now just reward all the criminals who are breaking the law now and allow them the licenses to produce it….please… no new Bronfman’s…. emerging after all our efforts did your work for you… I would say
( Bikers cut the locks off and broke in here with masks and threatened to cut my head off over my political efforts and I do not wish to now see them now then just given these licenses whom ever would of course need)
I would start “” grower coops “” groups of growers like in the tobacco industry and then let the market forces that would emerge do so…. As they are priced like any other commodity
Not many would like to see the government own the production and it isn’t about any other reason except the huge profits they want to make themselves …so of course we need to select producers
Bare in mind though that a transition would take place as we change over and a few bumps would still emerge but by and large within a year I would say it would be like it was always still legal as no criminals are selling booze they made any more are they?
And we know why?…because they can not compete and if they can they are already part of a legitimate alcohol business I am sure (actually they are)
Look at wineries and “on site” beer brewers for a few hints of how we should do it though }}}}}}
2. – are there detectable signs of impairment or does impairment even happen while making use of cannabis recreationally?
{{{{{ This depends on a lot of variables obviously like with any substance ….but you touch on a very important point !!!
WE MUST ADDRESS “”IMPAIRMENT”” first and foremost
and police are trained to ALREADY do so but as I said about recent moves to have swabs done and blood or urine taken
( huge dollars to pharmaceutical companies needlessly and huge costs housing billions of samples over time…who will pay those bills??)
People need to understand that already some elderly are impaired by LEGAL pharmaceuticals on our roads and in one case where a 77 year old pilot flew his airplane into a Richmond BC high rise only going to get much much worse until we do address “ impairment “ ….of any kind
I DO NOT ENDORSE CHEMICAL EXPLOITATION OR REPLACEMENT OF TRAINED POLICE AND THEIR ROLES
But lets face it when Raheem Jaffer the conservative MP was caught flying through a town speed driving …..drunk and pockets containing cocaine a little while ago …it took 5 days to come out in media and he got a mere $500 dollar tax deductible fine in the end !!!!
They could have placed the cocaine in a bag they already carry and in mere minutes identifed it as cocaine
Sadly ….some are always much much much more equal than others are they not ??? !
Had that happened to me or a liberal …..jail time would be of course ….needed !!!!! }}}}}}}}
Radar and impairment dedectors seatbelts
I often tell the story of this…
There used to be 40,000 people found impaled on their steering columns after car accidents every year
7 years in court against huge odds resulting in one thing only
Auto companies of course fought this for 7 years in court and explained how many many people would be put out of work if they needed to comply with this
What was it that resulted?
SEATBELTS
Lets face it …since the 80’s even the technology to stop any head on collisions has existed…
technology to not let cars even start with alcohol in them has already existed for 20 years !!!
Who are we again kidding ??
Radar …for 50 dollars and other cheap remedies are being completely ignored with the help of politicians wilfully ignorant on purpose }}}}
3. – if impairment does occur is there a simple roadside test to indicate impairment?
{{{{ Yes….and its been used for decades….it starts with a policeman’s eyes but has many parts to it…..I do not endorse billions of tax dollars needlessly spent to pharmaceutical companies as they bribe MP’S to provide chemical tests we do not actually need !! }}}}
4. – can it impair a users ability to perform certain jobs and functions?
{{{{ I should point out that like with alcohol or even other things like food even…each individual is different and long term use produces some who now are not impaired with more alcohol ….for example… than the average person
Cannabis is the same
I know many who get no impairment but do get pain relief for example
I of course am not trying to get a bunch of impaired people on the roads…hell…they are already there and just not reported over financial reasons to pharmaceutical companies if the truth be told
We do not talk about car accidents over legal pharmaceuticals causing impairment
We do not talk about natural impairment as truckers break rules with log books and cause accidents by not sleeping
We do not talk about impairment in ones own abilities and confidence while driving either }}}}}
By the way our armed forces pilots are given Speed and the USA ones who killed 4 of our first 5 canadian service men killed in afganistan …..were all on SPEED !!!!
Anything can impair some one …….its the signs of impairment that are always always the same no matter what the substance or even an allergy that caused any accident
Again Canadians are being bamboooozled with BS for chemical company profits ! }}}}}}
5. – would there be regulation of the quantity an individual could buy legally, and if so, would an underground market exist after this quantity is exceeded?
{{{{{{ I can tell you that again like alcohol some of us are using better brandy and whisky than some are on Chinese cooking wine out of a paper bag and always will
I can also tell you that there has always been superior cannabis …..properly weaned of chemical nutrients etc and properly cured …….and there has always been road kill type “”shwag”” cannabis …this wont change
Wine from your neighbour verses some highly crafted brew from some one well versed with experience will I dare say taste different
These stories that talk about higher THC concentrations this and that and killer weed ….hahhaha …..wow
( by the way the only cops to ever give this angel dust dusted pot story is my very own delta police force and they have lied …. As to this day under and after prodding …of course…. been forced to admit that they have never ever ever found any of this so called “ laced weed””
It just make me howl with laughter as they pretend something grown in the ground while hiding from law enforcement has some how procured resources to engineer super dope hahhahha
If anything like with prohibition and cocaine for example the resulting terror created by prohibition began this search for concentrated cocaine which is easier to smuggle etc and then crack was born…even crystal meth
It is the illegality that creates the wish to super concentrate drugs or as in alcohol production…profit
Sorry all that like with alcohol will happen after re legalization as some become connoisseurs and tinker with palates for dollars
Prohibition has created the demands for things like cannabis oil and even puddy ( hash) which is really just concentrated cannabis or more to the point the resin of cannabis
There has always been great cannabis and garbage cannabis just to be clear and probably always will be }}}}
6. – would the price point of regulated cannabis sales be an incentive to purchase from an underground market as opposed to the regulated market (given that a large amount of the price on cigarettes – and rightly so – is tax)?
{{{ OF COURSE….see above
You do understand that not one politician ever campaigns to make bullets cost a thousand dollars each don’t you see ?
Yes I would love that !!
No one wants that right?……ol uncle sam would be here in a jiffy taking over real quick would he not?
Of course people being people will always try to circumvent laws or taxes and gain advantages……like harper with his private fleet of taxpayer funded jets deemed un expendable and necessary for every trip to the store hahhahhaha
I can tell you that native band cigarettes are because of what I said above …the results of stupidity and over the tipping point in taxation …plain and simple
But to be honest any educated people knows very full well that real producers of these cigarettes are actually involved and been given slaps on the wrist when finally exposed …now they sell them the equipment to just make and package them …LOL }}}
7. – would it have any perceived impact on our border crossings with the U.S., and our intent to make border crossings easier for vehicles and pedestrians who commonly travel back and forth between Canada and the U.S.?
{{{{ What like the Americans have now done with an entrance fee???
You may be surprised to find that it will be Americans who probably re legalize cannabis before us actually as 13 states or so already have re legalized medicinal cannabis and many have it on the next elections ballots
Yes some will of course ….because of stupid laws still some where else……. always try to exploit markets…..look what the USA does to Cuba as they try to instil their morals and business models there….hmmmm??
The CIA ….has since it was created …..tried to do just as you speak as they topple countries and leaders simply to take what they want…as in oil for example
Do you know the real reason things like cannabis and cocaine for example are illegal in the USA?
Because these didn’t grow naturally in the USA and the USA isn’t the biggest producer nor do they have the market cornered already
And obviously because if you use cannabis you wont go blindly die needlessly in one of their oil wars so your parents get a flag to put at your dinner seat to represent you ….. at every future Xmas or important family meeting
Sorry if its about quick trips to sprawlmart as you then kill more Canadian manufacturing jobs with Chinese slave produced goods you must have to have … yes…. maybe leave 10 minutes earlier so they can strip search you faster for things they don’t produce and don’t like and you in your needs to hurt Canadian manufacturers must save pennies on
What ever happened to the “”Evil Communist Empire “” hmmmmmmmmmmmm???
One should also point out again !!!…….that no government has ever ever sold more cocaine that the USA government !!!
Iran Contra anyone?
So lets please just deal with reality and not boogymen
What about all the ones who will come here escaping persecution like jews did ….like gays do…… like etc etc etc }}}}}
8. – would it have any impact on the undefended border between ourselves and the U.S.?
{{{{{ ummm…??? “” UNDEFENDED BORDER “” ?????….. hahhahhahahahhahaha
You are kidding correct ??? hahhaha
Wow
Ok …if that is an undefended border what is a defended one?
One that’s completely sealed …? Hmmm?…What ?
You ever notice how easily raw logs go across or oil ??
Why?? …I think most know why }}}}}
I realize you may not have answers to all of these questions, so anyone who does have any input, please feel free to chime in.
Thanks
{{{ actually I do have answers to all of your questions …thanks
I hope many others do as well and that’s why I bother
Soon I am sure we can all just forget it as the liberals cower out in fear…as they become even more irrelevant and extinct …. Yes and as more innocent women are then shot needlessly on Boxing day in a shoot out for turf as has already happened here in BC …sure….I know it sadly …oh well I cant stop trying no matter how much stupidity I find
Good luck all …..its too bad there is not a real common sense political party with people placed before corporate profit…it really is }}}
Finally… and the rest of them too.
The root of drugs… is WALLSTREET and the CIA!
The black ops funded by the drug profits… the ‘liquidity’ of corporations and banks… ALL of it comes from the illegal CORPORATE drug trade.
The Taliban reduced opium production by 95%.
The USA took over… and it is now producing more opium and breaking records in production EVERY YEAR!
Yea.. just a co-winky-dink.
There should be mandated government clinics… like a drug store. Full information given, programs to combat addiction (for those that have an addictive personality, yes, there is a psychological component to drug use).
Take away the PROFIT… and the crime will disappear.
And you get to strike a revenge blow to the very first corporate hegemony on the planet after oil… DuPont and plastics. (For which all plastics can come from hemp by the way).
Seriously… just legalize this stuff. I don’t use it. I think its just stupid… but the criminalization of a habit that is HUMAN (escapism, mental coping, etc)… is beyond ridiculous.
A Marijuana History Lesson
@shavluk
I am wondering, and I am directing this at you because you are one of the most vocal on this issue, so your opinions and knowledge carry some weight with how I perceive the righteousness of this issue, if you could inform me of the following.
1. – unlike alcohol, I understand growing cannabis is fairly straightforward (or perhaps even just not so complicated), so how are we to regulate the sale and purchase of a government endorsed product?
2. – are there detectable signs of impairment or does impairment even happen while making use of cannabis recreationally?
3. – if impairment does occur is there a simple roadside test to indicate impairment?
4. – can it impair a users ability to perform certain jobs and functions?
5. – would there be regulation of the quantity an individual could buy legally, and if so, would an underground market exist after this quantity is exceeded?
6. – would the price point of regulated cannabis sales be an incentive to purchase from an underground market as opposed to the regulated market (given that a large amount of the price on cigarettes – and rightly so – is tax)?
7. – would it have any perceived impact on our border crossings with the U.S., and our intent to make border crossings easier for vehicles and pedestrians who commonly travel back and forth between Canada and the U.S.?
8. – would it have any impact on the undefended border between ourselves and the U.S.?
I realize you may not have answers to all of these questions, so anyone who does have any input, please feel free to chime in.
Thanks
Ummmmm
Wow…
Umm…Linda…..””””””fetal marijuana syndrome”””” ….?????
hahhahha
Are you actually serious?
Thank you again Mr Mulligan you said most of what I would say already but the above comment demands attention here …no?
WOW
I must say I get excited about our chances of actually waking up cowardly politicians ….yes ..thank you Linda…if we now have even invented reasons added to the standard “”What about the children”" technique …wow…we must be making strides and more importantly ….sense ….yes…so everything but the kitchen sink needs inserting now eh?…LOL
And the ol’ “”schizophrenia “” boogyman … out of the bag o tricks too eh?…haha….wow
No offence I hope taken here but people like you need exposing …and more importantly dispelling
Yes maybe ruin the lives of 800,000 more legal canadian citizens so crime continues to manage the cannabis business here in canada …eh?
Just peachy?
I should point out right off the hop though that the use of cannabis has increased over a thousand fold since the 50′s ….the rates for schizophrenia…..???…yes as I have said before there is no spike…no increase and what you say has been documented as crap
If anything those predisposed to the ailment are in fact helped by its use…please show real and credible links to prove these claims but be aware Linda that I dispelled every last argument and link showing them all linked to the DEA while bringing the green party out of the closet on this issue as well
Yes please Linda….show us the bodies I know dont exist
Keeping cannabis illegal has sure worked well so far to keep it away from kids …..hasnt it??
Tell any kid you can find to go get alcohol from any where but dad and see how it goes with government regulation controlling supply….hmmmm?
I am sorry but I must point out that if we ever did convince the liberals to find their guts and actually stand up and use this issue effecting over 3 million canadians…my experience and the attacks against me are completely convincing me that the harpercrits would be so scared of that thought …..that they would sign up on sites like this to try to tear apart support for these issues…. they know will kill them and their chances in the next election !!!!
I am sorry but people like Linda are not the liberals…??? we are trying to reach…..I am after ones that dont invent diseases like “”fetal marijuana syndrome”" knowing full well that the university of saskatchewan already released years ago that compounds in cannabis are used naturally in human bodies and that these compounds make subjects smarter and much more healthy in fact
Google it but please please please…..yes…add these so called studies you mention so that when I expose them for what I know they are many more umm…er…”” liberals “”…….wake up !!
My goodness we must scare the heck out of some !!!
I rest my case and say if we really want to decide who’s lives we ruin because of the kids who in reality use less of legal substances in countries that legalized …we better start reminding people about the real products for kids that need addressing like crystal meth …oops I mean Ritalin…all the doctors are flooding canada with that are so prevalent they are even showing up in our drinking water !!
When people like some here pipe up…well I am sorry but I know we are winning !!
For any that really want to know the truth please trust your own abilities to find the truth as with today’s technologies they can no longer hide the truth from you !!!
Please educate yourselves !! and lets scare the hell out of the harpercrites !!!!!!!!!!
Ms. SCHULTZ’ comments below are “Bang-on”… there is considerable scientific evidence that marihuana use by teenagers carries the increased risk of the development of schizophrenia… which is precisely why the legalization and strict regulation of this product is required ASAP.
Under NO circumstances should our party be perceived to be endorsing/advocating this product’s widespread use. With relatively rare, yet notable, exceptions (ie. glaucoma, anorexia, cancer, Alzheimer’s) this recreational drug poses health risks and thereby must be appropriately “policed” via regulation to ensure that every reasonable effort is made to restrict its access to individuals who have attained a minimum specified age (25 yrs?)… Will these measures prevent a teenager from gaining access to this product? Hell, no. But if it’s purchased legitimately through the local WCBO :-), as a parent, you will probably sleep better at night knowing that it hasn’t been “angel dusted” by the local street-level dealer who wants his customers buying his PCP.
Ms. SCHULTZ points out that… “Families in this country are looking for leadership that recognizes their responsibilities as the educators and nurturers of their children”… I couldn’t possibly agree more with this statement. It is our number one obligation as parents to ensure our children are provided with the utmost opportunity to be successful in ultimately attaining their dreams – whatever form those dreams take.
Legalization & regulation further ensures that our kids don’t arbitrarily become instant criminals for simple possession of a lousy joint!!! How many parents out there can speak to the results of having their kids’ aspirations for their futures completely shattered as a result of being labeled a criminal for “simple” possession of marihuana?? We need to hear from you people in this very important discussion, folks!
“There, but for the grace of God, go I”… in 1983, I was interviewed for my job in policing… one of the first questions posed by this professional interviewer dealt with my use of any drugs… upon my admission to minimal use of grass & hashish during my university years, I asked him point blank if this interview was now effectively “over”, to which he replied… “Mistakes I can live with – dishonesty is unacceptable”… the interview continued.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, this resolution ultimately requires PROFESSIONAL MANAGEMENT to properly address this issue to our fellow Canadians. In the interim, we need considerably more input into this very important discussion in an effort to raise its profile within our fast-approaching convention.
Best to all…
dm
Families in this country are looking for leadership that recognizes their responsibilities as the educators and nurturers of their children. I know very few parents who want there children/teens to use marijuana. As for college students, the demands made on them re:studies,academics,trades,debt burdens should caution them about recreational use of marijuana which has an effect on IQ and performance on the job. What about the effect on writing exams? I would ask about the use of this drug on the job? Are we protecting the rights of using this on the job after a day’s use? What about liability for mistakes made from ‘cannabinoids” in the system after use. I understand they are unpredictable in their time of resurfacing.Fetal Marijuana Syndrome is another thing to think about? What about the link between schizophrenia and marijuana.
http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html
http://www.theweekly.com/news/2004/February/07/MDD_Drugs.html
SMART ON CRIME, I like that. This would be smart on crime.
I’ve read somewhere that 85% of the crime in the country is related to drugs. That most of the money that the crime organizations make are from drugs. So we need to look at who has an interest in keeping the status quo:
1) The Drug Importers
2) The Manufacturers of Illegal Drugs
3) The Criminal organizations that distribute the
drugs.
4) The local Crime Boss, and his front people.
5) The people selling drugs on the street corners.
6) The people selling drugs on our school grounds.
You all know of these guys, but have you considered:
7) The lawyers who defend the criminals in court.
8) The lobbyists who are working the halls of
government and justice.
9) The police force, who receive funding based on the
size of the Drug problem. The police have no
interest at all in catching the the drug pushers
and closing down their organizations.
10) How about our prisons, without drug offenders they
would have to close half of them.
11) Judges, Crown Prosecutors, court personal etc.
12) How about the whole drug enforcement system.
The list just goes on and on: All these people have an interest in keeping the system as it is.
So how do we stop it?
To stop it you need to take the profit motive out of it.
So how do we do this?
Well let’s start by treating drug addiction as a disease (which it is) and giving the addicts prescriptions for
their drugs. You then have a chance to reach these people and maybe turn their lives around, at the very least you take them off the street. Reducing street crime, break and entries, prostitution, muggings etc.
Addicts would be getting cleaner drugs, and clean needles, reducing the costs to the health care system.
This is complicated and start up is costly, no where near as costly as the crime it would replace, and the legal system the drug trade supports. Complicated yes, not as complicated as the system we are running now.
Next step legalize recreational drugs, and sell them through government outlets. Costly start up but would very quickly pay the cost of the whole preventive system. Also, people would be getting cleaner drugs, and would be less likely to try street drugs.
There would be very little reason for the development of new recreational drugs, (no money in it).
There would be no one at our schools pushing drugs at our children.
Our Police and court system could be refocused on other hard core crime problems.
Over time, the number of addicted people would drop, but the big change would be people coming into the system from the hard drug side of things.
There would no longer be a profit motive, at least not on any great scale.
Wow !
Thank you Dan Mulligan….
One would suspect that when even 28 year veterans of policing say re-legalize cannabis ….maybe it is time to take the blinders off eh?
Bravo !
Sadly I stood outside the 2006 Quebec City NDP national convention watching senior NDP use cannabis then go back inside and vote down anyone mentioning the word….thats why I ran for party president…just to say that word…cannabis
I wasnt going to comment again here because it would only be an argument to others comments about so called “harms” …when I know much different…..and to be completely honest say nothing in my entire 54 years has ever ever ever harmed me more personally than to go to jail as an innocent man and not see my children for two years…. 20 years ago
Never being qualified ever again with any of the jobs I had ever done previously …..bank manager…revenue canada department head… financial manager….and now then always being stuck in a world of barehanded labour living hand to mouth because of a life changing criminal record for something I still do stands as a second biggest harm thank you very much !!!
No I wasn’t going to comment again hoping smart liberals would please resond….Yes thank you Sir….Dan !!
I hadnt even mentioned the number one cause of deaths of young men outside of accidents is actually suicide…yet… negligible numbers to those young men who have tried cannabis….bizarre eh?
I hadnt even dealt with the violence created with alcohol nor pointed out the obvious on the differences…..we are far beyond all that obvious information I should hope
Its no secret why this is still even an issue..it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with health…. harm …or even any concern for “” my fellow man”””… type of thing….you must be joking right?
No…… as some one who has for 21 years been standing up to the obvious and even been attacked personally by harpercrit himself…(I believe….( shavluk.com) I must again comment ….I guess I just need to
If the liberals dont wake up …finally…now
I am sorry but….
I just fear no return ever possible to a canada I have always defended… known and been proud of…it will be over
I have served my country in two official capacities yet never have I been more ashamed of it as now
We were a nation that was a beacon to the world….to truth… freedom and hopefulness….now we are nothing more than texas north and run out of calgary oil money head quarters
My last kick at the cat I just ran federally again …walked the streets for 32 days actually …spoke to 6 thousand people individually …….and reminded all I could that we could in fact right now all be driving @ 70 cents a litre …on LNG …that we actually just easily filled up with at home with
And the results of that actually cut CO 2 emissions… instantly by 30 % …that is a fact….even with canadian invented technology …google “fuelmaker”
(long story harper allowed killed)
Sadly harper with his calgary petroleum club owners (the same ones who financed his Reform Party take over funding by the way ) make sure you never ever have a clue about that choice either
No… it is with the knowledge that I must do this now that I stand up here again and ask that all of us yes please do stand up and use this issue to again unify all fair minded canadians …all peace keeping canadians and all “pro-choice in anything personal” canadians …..to now stand up and save canada…the canada that was here for 144 years and who should continue to be here for this world …not the soon given over ugly step child slave of a thirsty american master
If we can not stand up on this one issue armed with so much …we will never ever stop the real agenda of harpercrit and that is draining all our water freely to americans besides just all our oil
The battle for canada must be started now by the party with the best chances and with the proper ammunition against harper and no issue in canada unites more different peoples than the cannabis issue and crime
I say its time the liberals actually woke up
Its time for common sense government…..and a common sense party
Again its the liberals election to lose
Heres to smart choices and to canada !! our canada
While I would place myself to the right of Attilla the Hun on the political spectrum in relation to a number of issues, my 28 years of policing has led to a considerably softer and more realistic stance on our great Cannabis debate. The sooner this stuff is legalized & strictly regulated, the better… as mentioned earlier in this conversation, PM TRUDEAU saw fit to put together the LeDAIN Commission in ’69… I strongly suggest our justice committee take it out, dust it off and read the damn thing… 42 years later we are STILL making criminals out of 18 yr olds with a few joints in their possession… now THAT is a crime in my humble opinion. Police forces across this country (and subsequently our criminal justice system) are spending untold multi-millions annually… the only end result being criminal organizations making considerably higher profits with fluctuating supply and increasing demand. We chase this stuff because it’s real simple to generate numbers… while Methamphetamine, Oxycontin and the opiate derivatives are reeking widespread havoc with our youth.
Don’t bother wasting time & effort on this “de-criminalization” sham… if 30 grams or less is NOT a criminal offence, then only the lawyers will get richer over the course of the next 10-15 years … ultimately & SUCCESSFULLY arguing to “the supremes”…that “my client’s kilo contains exactly the same product as the “de-criminalized” 30 grams!!!!!”
Our demographics are currently perfect for this debate :-) The economic implications of the legalization of this relatively harmless herb are STAGGERING!!
Anyone with any doubts whatsoever as to the considerable benefits derived from this ancient herb, need only google “medical cannabis” and review the Wikipedia site.
Professionally managed, this single issue has the potential for the Liberal party to once again provide a viable alternative to the current government.
shavluk – I fear you may have misunderstood my comments.
In brief, the physical effects of marijuana use are very similar to those experienced by cigarette smokers. There is much evidence to validate my position. The research is not so definitive on the emotional/addictive effects. Nor does the evidence definitively prove whether marijuana use in and of itslf is a gateway drug to other, more serious substances. I encourage you to google, “The health effects of smoking cannabis” or any other phraseology you choose.
So if we assume the evidence exists, that debate becomes moot. My position is that there are significant health risks to smoking marijuana. However, as with other substances (sugar, processed food etc), users must be in a position to make informed choices.
Prohibition in the 30s didn’t work, our draconian drug laws don’t work, and I believe decriminalization/regulation is the answer. Criminalizing pot smokers, as part of an overall “drug strategy” is inappropriate and ineffective.
Instead, I would like to see more resources put into education of the effects of marijuana use, targeting young people. Adults will smoke or not. And to be honest, that is irrelevant to me. Young people, however, developmentally are impulsive and very susceptible to the influence of peers, parents and advertising. In the same way that an anti-tobacco campaign had a significant impact on cigarette smoking among young people, I feel a similar strategy would work specific to marijuana use.
I agree that marijuana users are unlikely to commit armed robberies or other violent crimes to finance their habits. The greatest risk, as I see it, is on their grocery bill – most especially relating to chips, chocolate, cake…..you get my point.
My second point relates to crystal meth, crack cocaine, heroin etc. These drugs are the scourge of society and do have long-term societal impacts that affect not just the user, but all citizens.
An effective drug strategy would include a mult-pronged approach:
Education (prevention)
Harm reduction (intervention)
Enforcement (suppression)
I feel the focus on marijuana is inappropriate, ineffective and unnecessary. I further feel that this resolution is obliquely worded and does not go far enough in the education of young people.
We are running out of time here people
Please get involved and stand up !
To recap here maybe
Viewing this issue as simply about legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana tends to place this issue fairly low (like off the radar) on many people’s progressive agenda. Viewing it as putting an end to the war on drugs elevates the issue to a top priority. The war on drugs is the cutting edge of fascism in America. It is absolutely central to the loss of civil liberties, freedom and justice in America, and paved the way for the final removal of civil rights protections under the banner of the war on terror. We in Canada are perpetuating a war on our own citizens under our current marijuana laws. This is unconscionable and obscene and must not be allowed to continue.
We have been lied to with our own tax dollars for decades. The struggle to legalize marijuana is a struggle not only for justice, but for an invaluable and abundant medicine. It is a struggle of truth against lies, and individual and collective will against multinational corporations. It is very difficult to exaggerate the harm that has been caused by the war on drugs. When the dots are all connected, it’s not at all hard to argue that legalizing marijuana ought to have the highest priority with all progressive people and parties
People need to understand that there is more than one option where illicit drugs are concerned.
Maybe not legalization as some see it , RE-regulation. The difference is important.
As legal as alcohol is which it isn’t in reality
I have never endorsed legalization as in anything but the alcohol model — but I do call for re-regulation.
In public policy, “regulation” means management according to some rational and revisable criteria, rather than by random, chaotic chance.
Most of the modern world regulates everything that comes into contact with citizens: from securities to radio bandwith, from milk to banks to air-travel safety to telecommunications to food production to children’s toys to drinking water. Everything that touches us is regulated according to some criteria embedded in laws, enforceable – ultimately – by the state.
These things are all legal, but they’re also heavily regulated. Just try to sell unpasteurized milk from your own cows to your next door neighbour.
By and large, most regulations work pretty well. We do have our Walkertons and our Dr. Charles Smith events, but these are few and far between. Regulation has its critics but it prevents a lot of McCain food-like disasters.
We regulate everything according to criteria specific to the product or service and its impact on public well being. Different forms of regulation for different products and services, whether Goodyear Tires or Tupperware.
These regulations are informed by statistics and other forms of evidence. We would never consider regulating something – like smoke alarms or baby formula – without having a great deal of evidence about how those regulations will or will not produce benefit rather than harm.
Regulation is about rationality and predictability. It’s about understanding the balance of harms and benefits and creating the conditions to maximize benefits and minimize harms.
This, at least, is how political scientists (like me) understand regulation.
With regard to illicit drugs, we use a form of regulation called “prohibition.” Prohibition relies on punishment and threat of punishment through the criminal justice system.
Prohibition is supposed to work through the magic of deterrence. You won’t touch drugs because you know that if you get busted you’ll get a criminal record and your life chances will be negatively affected.
We do with illicit drugs, in other words, what was once done with alcohol – and with the same results: violence, corruption, graft and death.
In essence — and this is the point – we regulate the production, distribution and consumption of illicit drugs by handing it over to the contest between organized crime and police.
As a consequence, organized crime is thriving. Prices to users are lower, supply is better and purity is higher than 40 years ago when Richard Nixon declared his “war on drugs.”
Quoting from a recent court ruling here in Ontario: “People have been going to jail for drug offences for – for a couple of generations now and the drug – the drug plague is worse than it ever was … If something doesn’t work, do I try doing it again and again to see if it does work? Isn’t that the definition of insanity?”
The big crime syndicates have Spanish names today. Instead of Al Capone it’s Miguel Caro Quintero. Instead of alcohol, it’s cocaine, ecstasy, cannabis and meth.
Big seizures are made on a weekly basis, yet supply is unaffected – and a handful of powerful organized criminal groups get fabulously wealthy: enough to literally outgun police and military forces in Mexico and to purchase the government of Afghanistan.
Illicit drug profits constitute the oxygen of organized crime – globally, nationally and locally.
These are facts you can confirm with the UN World Drug Report
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/WDR-2009.html
Prohibition fails because it attempts to negate the iron laws of supply and demand.
So this form of regulation – called prohibition — enriches organized crime but does nothing to address demand, i.e., reduce the flow of drugs to users on the street. It brings with it lots of violence, deaths by overdose, disease transmission, police corruption, swollen prisons, etc.
Prohibition is a policy choice, not a law of nature like gravity. We chose to use prohibition in 1908 for racist purposes and we’ve only added to it and built on it since.
The worst effect of drug prohibition is that it creates incentives for our political leaders to lie to us – and to make promises they know they can’t keep.
And the same is true of police: in private they admit that (in their words), “We’ll never arrest out way out of our drug problems” but in public they have to play the prohibition game even though they will admit (in private) that drug prohibition corrupts cops and destroys the profession.
Prohibition CREATES crime. Always has and always will.
Don’t take my word for it: see http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php – these people are not nut-cases. They have seen the harm of drug prohibition and have crossed over.
See this excellent essay by Gil Puder – who used to work to the downtown eastside of Vancouver:www.leap.cc/publications/puderempirestrikes.pdf
More recently, see this video of the Senate Testimony of Constable David Bratzer:www.youtube.com/watch?v=173LZbyWCOU
My claim here is that prohibition — as a form of regulation — produces so many undesirable consequences that we ought to abandon it and choose a form of regulation that gives us more of what we want and less of what we don’t want.
What I want less of – much less of – is organized crime, drug gangs and drug-business criminality.
What I want more of – much more of – is education, prevention, harm reduction, public health and community safety.
So I favour a form of regulation that would NOT create incentives for organized criminal gangs to control the drug trade – because, for me, organized crime and drug gangs are the worst of all evils.
Not everyone will agree with this. Everyone who studies this issue agrees that prohibition gives rise to organized criminal violence – but some people are willing to tolerate a certain amount of violence by organized crime because they think that, eventually, we’ll figure out how to apply the right police resources to eradicate it once and for all.
I’m doubtful. We’ve been at it for 101 years and we’re no closer. Not even the Americans, who employ much greater police force and violence, have been successful.
So I would endorse a system of RE-regulation – there are many models on offer – that took the production, distribution and consumption of currently illicit drugs out of the hands of organized crime.
Does this imply legalization?
It could, for some substances, but it does not HAVE to.
It all depends on what we – as a society – choose to regulate in the interests of public safety versus that which we leave to organized crime.
And that depends on how much we are willing to tolerate the participation of organized crime because – on the evidence of the last 101 years – they are going to meet a market demand whatever the penalties enacted in prohibitionist laws.
Virtually every government-commissioned analysis of drug policy in the 20th-Century has agreed that cannabis should never have been criminalized in the first place.
So cannabis should – on the evidence – be decriminalized and regulated so as to control for quality, purity and access to young persons.
My preference is to regulate AGAINST the interests of organized criminal gangs – but there are other ways to regulate too, to trade off competing values where drugs are concerned.
So that’s it: if it were up to me I would design a system of regulation which sucked the oxygen out of the black market and took the profit out of supplying the market for currently illicit drugs. That would be my priority.
Lets become the liberals again shall we?
Cheers
In its current writing, I do not support this resolution.
I do, however, support the decriminalization of cannabis.
The evidence for decriminalization is clear. Science has proven the risks associated with marijuana use, and it now falls to Liberals to have an education and communication strategy which identifies these risks, and communicates them in the same way we have been educated on the risks of tobacco, alcohol, sugar, processed foods etc. etc.
If we assume a certain number of people smoke marijuana, and will always moke marijuana (legal or not), then the debate becomes the unnecessary criminalization of certain behaviours, with great social and financial cost.
However, as with alcohol and tobacco, if the focus is on preventing vulnerable young people from trying marijuana until they are older, then we may be able to reduce or defer the associated harms.
It must be part of an overall crime prevention/health strategy.
Thanks Laurie
Of course we all have opinions
How do you suggest we change it?
I aim to educate and change opinions on the issue
But I have a couple of quick questions so far if you dont mind?
Your comment
“” Science has proven the risks associated with marijuana use”"
Can you please provide your evidence to this comment?
Some links?
I as a 30 year daily cannabis user would sure like to know what it is I am supposedly at risk to develop or get and have obviously avoided for 30 years…you see?
And baring in mind driving cars kills 40,000 a year and cannabis NO ONE yes please maybe explain?
Knowing that health Canada lists things that can kill me including everything from alcohol the worst one …. right down to just peanuts I of course must point out cannabis is not on this list but please do share what you have so that I can address it properly please
And then please address how this decriminalization word deals with the realities of …”"SUPPLY”"
With all due respect decriminalization is a misnomer
I think we would agree in principle about the underlying intentions but maybe disagree based on just wording?
But I know we cant be just half pregnant
Those who use cannabis are either dirty rotten scum of the earth or they are not
It is either a vile disgusting habit or it isnt
They are not victims of themselves nor mindless slaves to addiction as some maybe make out
It is not like Crystal Meth or tobacco use…..anyone can take it or leave it without physical withdrawals
One can chose to live life with out driving a car too and see the world in a different way…but we all still see the world
Even liberal prime ministers have tried cannabis
I am sorry but real policy demands real policy…saying we as liberals believe anyone trading or supplying cannabis is still just a criminal is still the wrong choice as it is naive and still providing billions to criminal suppliers needlessly and all of us are now then much less safe needlessly
They wont just go away with a law written…….I say we take the money going to criminal now
Its time to take the blinders off and to quit inventing words just to pretend so called unsavoury habits are dealt with as we put our heads back in the sands and innocents are then shot
Sorry but decriminalization makes about as much sense as decriminalized alcohol consumption
I leave history to explain the results instead of arguing the point
I cant stop Canadians from turning into human larva’s with fats and sugars…lining up in gas guzzling cars steps away from a brewed drug….coffee…..nor do I intend to
But I certainly wont just go blindly into the night because I happen to chose my poison or medicine from plants
Or because of the cowardice and stupidity of others I then become deemed a criminal from its use
As I say of course the liberals can chose to become irrelevant again…. to 3 million Canadian citizens or more …..of course …..who am I to stop them??
I as a liberal as well can only tell us that we are wrong to do so
And that these people are citizens and that we are talking about victimless crimes and none of these drugs are sold at gun point
They are used by consenting adults of every persuasion every culture and every status
Heck……..
What’s another couple of elections lost until we get it right?? Eh?
I’d first like to state that I am a non-smoker, tobacco or otherwise.
I think marijuana should be treated just like alcohol, subject to the same controls. The laws regarding where it can be used should be the same as tobacco. All the laws that are already in place re: alcohol & tobacco would address the concerns others have mentioned.
It would be a boon to tax revenues and it would take away revenue to crime organizations. Law enforcement should be focused on REAL drugs: cocaine, meth, illegally obtained prescription drugs, etc. These are the drugs that cause problems in our communities, not pot.
Thank you Rhonda for your sane view
If I may add a couple of my election speech points?
I would like to point out that the number one drug prescribed to canadian children is in fact Ritalin…and yes the number one university student study aid
And that if you instead smoked it instead of ingested it ….it must be called by its street name as they are almost identical …CRYSTAL METH
Yes you are correct Rhonda about including legal drugs because right now no police force can get any medical group or government to open up the prescription drug racket !!! On purpose
I will tell you why….10 times as much Oxycontin for example (bush family owned pharmacological heroin clone patented drug )is imported into canada every year than all prescriptions for it combined !!!
You cant touch that drug cartel as they have politicians in their back pockets obviously
I also say in these elections …”"there has never ever been a jail or prison ever built on this entire planet…that illegal drugs have never been found in…so how then will we in fact actually keep them out of SCHOOLS…as please sir how many more billions of dollars will that actually take?? “”"
If the liberals again ignore this issue out of invented fear and cowardice they not only again look like cowards to educated canadians but irrelevant to voters
The harpercrites omnibus crime bill is worth more than only one election victory if used correctly
But sadly it requires guts and leadership….so here’s to many more elections with none of that
I challenge liberals to rise up with science and to ignore morals as they again by their condoning of cowardice earmark thousands more canadian children to receive life changing criminal records for nothing
The green party was only even created because of liberal cowardice….why allow this?
Please wake up
I am unsure of this.
I am only sure that until the perception of the POSSIBILITY that marijuana might perhaps be a gateway drug, the public perception may not be in favour of this idea.
Until such a time I would say no to the above, until the myth is disproven or proven we cannot in good moral standing approve this resolution.
Concretely dispel the myth, then by all means proceed.
Hi L Hough
Thanks for contributing.
As I have said before…. all 3 of the last 3 USA Presidents have admitted their own cannabis use…two are even admitted cocaine users.
In fact 12 USA Presidents used cannabis and many even grew it !
I dont really see where it has held any of them back….do you?
The two biggest killer “drugs” in society are in fact animal fat and sugar…yes they are drugs based on bodily reactions to them and how drugs are determined.
Heart disease stroke diabetes’s and a whole string of problems result in the majority of Canadian deaths per year
So far cannabis has killed ZERO EVER !!
The fact is meat kills more than anything humans eat yet we see no disclaimers on Safeway meat packages so pretending as we destroy thousands more lives over a substance responsible for not one death to date I say is ludicrous and retarded
The only true “gateway” drug…. by the way… is in fact “mothers milk”
But sadly since 2003 even that deemed unsafe for human consumption what with 42 pesticides and heavy metals now contained in the average canadian women’s breast milk…google it
The facts are that the vast majority of people who try cannabis stop using it naturally and the vast majority never try a stronger drug
I would turn it around …what you say.. And ask that we re-legalize cannabis until some one… anyone ….proves anything like a “gateway” drug theory …which as I know never has been done
By the way nearly 100 % of all heroin addicts have tried alcohol
Maybe theres the gateway drug I know doesnt exist
Sorry but I can not find one valid reason why cannabis is illegal and every argument I do find from some is based purely on the golden rule of medicine….”"”there is no money made in curing people”"”
I traveled across canada and interviewed people sent home to die from Palliative Care rooms who ended up completely cured of life ending cancers simply by consuming drops of cannabis oil…..if you had cancer wouldn’t you try it?
I would and would go to jail if need be
To me it is actually the “gateway drug” to awareness and better health through this personal awareness
I point out that although alcohol is believed legal it isnt..it is in fact completely regulated and that is our end goal with cannabis
I also point out that even with alcohol and its openness and supposed legality it still has many many citizens who do not ever use it and never will…they don’t feel compelled to try it with no one going to jail for its sales
Its legality by no means threatens anyone nor does it make it so everyone needs to try it
I said in election campaigns I could put a bucket of cocaine and heroin on every street corner and as with now only the 1.3 % hard core addicts would ever touch it…would you?
Sorry the drug is in fact irrelevant as its the individual that needs addressing and their low self esteem in the first place
The drugs whether legal or illegal are irrelevant in fact
Still I must say there is no justifiable credible reason to have destroyed 800,000 canadian citizens lives so far with a criminal record just for cannabis possession and bad theories is there?
You are either liberal or you aren’t …you either believe in human rights or you don’t
Conservatism in canada is the gateway to misery and despair or so it seems …no?
Prove other wise while you are at it on this cannabis theory of yours please
I can also say the “gateway” back to a liberal majority will be one that includes sane and rational cannabis policy…I will bet anyone this one
I beleive that legalizing marijuana is an up-stream social experiment. We should de-criminalize it to avoid the over a million crimial records of Candians being further convicted and taunted by what they have done in the past.
However much I would like Canada to take an enlightened approach to drugs (and definitely end the incentive to criminal distribution of them). As this resolution is phrased, it should not be supported.
The Liberal Party can call for a national consultation and study of legalization of drugs. But without that done, and done very well, the Liberal Party cannot call for legalization of marijuana.
Firstly, Canada has international agreements regarding the drug enforcement. And legalization of marijuana would have ramifications to our participation in international law enforcement.
Other problems that need to addressed. (Notwithstanding the items I list below are already problems, for legalization to proceed without addressing them is impossible.
… People driving under the influence (is there a roadside test.)
… People smoking marijuana where there are children in the home, inhaling the smoke.
… People showing up at work under the influence, and perhaps operating equipment.
These are consequences to people other than the user, and although these already occur happen we must consider these issues and their solutions. One comment refers to legalization of small quantities by some American States. This is information that should be compiled and examined.
It is obvious that criminalization of drugs leads to criminal distribution, and a variety of social and health issues. The fact that criminalization creates these issues is grounds for a national consultation and study; but until that is done it would be irresponsible for the Liberal Party call for legalization of marijuana.
Well thanks for your comments Stanley but I must point out what are to me …glaring miss truths in what you say and what to me is nothing more than pure personal opinion by yourself
Now I will not address this at your personally but at your arguments so please dont take offence…and I am not a very good writer so please try to see what I am saying here generally …thank you
First
It was actually the liberals themselves who commissioned the most intensive and comprehensive study ever done by a Canadian government on cannabis …and get this… soon it will have been tabled for over 40 years !!!
http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/federal_politics/clips/3578/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Dain_Commission_of_Inquiry_into_the_Non-Medical_Use_of_Drugs
http://www.drugtext.org/library/reports/ledain/NONMED.HTM
The Le Dain Study ruled that in their opinion cannabis should be re legalized….or …the exact wording …”"”"The final report recommended that cannabis be removed from the Narcotic Control Act and that the provinces implement controls on possession and cultivation, similar to those governing the use of alcohol”"”
Ditto the second canadian biggest government effort …the 2002 Senate Report…which as I said recommends legal cannabis for anyone ….thats anyone…over 16
Some like you talk like continuing to put our heads in the sand will do something after 80 years of the reverse that has given more cash to criminals than anything else in our history?
Soon 50 Calibre fully automatic machine guns will kill innocent people two miles away from the incident like in mexico with the harpercrite crime bills
My first thought was that you sound like some one who drinks alcohol ?…..sorry but its alcohol that should in fact be restricted not cannabis but then as I know prohibition doesnt work and that we are safer with legal alcohol sales than illegal ….I turn my discriminations off when discussing that disgusting habit that has killed hundreds of thousands for what??? a hangover???
Sorry but ruining tons more lives (800,000 citizens now with a criminal record so far for possession of cannabis…victimless crime) just so you can think it isnt out there and because you dont partake is just fine…..is of course something that can happen within the liberals…of course
In fact it has been done…as I say for 40 years (Chretien BS ed us the best and gave us hope for decades and created the back lash you have seen and more importantly WILL SEE)
But do it one more time and I bet all like you the end result will for sure be the extinction of what you call the liberal party today….without a doubt
We are almost to the point where we dont even need you any more anyway having done experiments supporting and building other partys to show liberals that they are in fact cowards and to be honest knowing what I do about certain liberal MP’s ….HYPOCRITES as well
No sir…..what you speak of in your arguement has already been done and its been done many times !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To me its nothing more than a glib fearful cop out
The fact remains Sir that the only two governments on the planet that actually ever studied cannabis and driving by the way both concluded that in fact subjects actually drove better on cannabis than on NOTHING !
Google it ..Australia and Great Britain
Now to address that old boggy man comment ..Oh what about the americans !!!..
hahhahhahhahaa
wow..some are awfully naive …just look at any other treaty the americans dont like…and broke !!
But just to be clear …Portugal basically re legalized cannabis and de crimined all drug use and all the problems you mention and prohibitionists mentioned have in fact gone down
Less people are using drugs actually and organized crime weakened
AND
All they did was send a letter o the UN tsaying they with draw from that treaty…SIMPLE…DONE ….OVER !!
The americans have done it with dozens of treaties
That argument is not an argument it is a theory…nothing more
Now I am not trying to offend and hope I am not …to me though its like listening to a couple of good ol boys…a couple of old americans talking about how its great that they string up a few of those darkies once in a while to teach them all a lesson…how dare they look at a white women….
Yes sir …it is that repulsive to me and I am one of those 800,000 innocent canadian citizens and I have paid for over 20 years for a victimless crime I did not even commit and I am done paying sir
I have been in 5 Federal election fights and 3 Provincial election fights …and have run for BC Green leader and President of the NDP…and much more
We are organized…we are here …we do vote !!!!!!!!!!!!!!…we make people and parties LOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry as a canadian armed forces veteran and as a first generation canadian whose whole family was killed in the Ukrainian Holodomor …I must say sir the tone really bothers me
Can we at least stop ruining lives until liberals discover their own government studies have wished them to stand on the side of truth justice and equality re cannabis for almost 40 YEARS !!!! hmmmm??….a cease fire on ruining more canadian lives until some put down their beers and read their own partys studies ??????? hmmm
Sorry if the liberals again fail to look like liberals…well sir it will be because of those like you
I say right here and right now many many many people are watching all this with baited breath….yes I must admit most very cynical because they actually have a memory but all the same many more than those like you I dare say sir
But then to us it is a matter of life and death and not some unsavoury decision darkies bring to themselves as some thought during slavery
In contrast to your …to me ….disturbing thoughts…”"”but until that is done it would be irresponsible for the Liberal Party call for legalization of marijuana”"”"
I say it would be more irresponsible of the liberal party to just continue to be complete hypocritical cowards …..as they become irrelevant because of being hypocritical cowards
To us your comments are like saying gays should have continued to be jailed until more studies were done…its that simple
Maybe get up to speed to the studies already done even by liberals before voicing your opinion with no knowledge obviously of what you speak of as arguments?
And in closing I would say that these are your own children and grand children whose lives you are ruining with fear and cowardice…they are not foreigners
They are equal citizens with rights !!!!!!!!!!!
What a shame…and what a waste !!
Cheers
Gasp! What would the Americans think?
There is really no reason for the government to officially demonise marijuana anymore. It’s a waste of massive amounts of money and manpower, and it makes no sense. Of all illicit drugs it is by far the safest and most commonly used. The law is essentially a joke and finally removing it could be a huge push to our international reputation with many countries (not to mention a boost to tourism).
But of course we have our southern neighbors. They continue this pointless crusade and legalising marijuana would likely alienate our closest trading partner and ally. This resolution takes pains to assure that illegal trading and smuggling would be strictly penalized and monitored, and of this we really need to convince the US. This is no small problem – I imagine for many in power it’s the biggest obstacle to finally removing this law.
This is an issue that seriously needs to be discussed, though, and this might be our only chance to finally address it.
I concur – couldn’t have said it better.
Legalize it
@Suzzannej ….. Thanks for your view
But I would ask …why stop there?
And I ask you to read my comments below and then please answer about why you feel the way you do?
Not one person has ever died from cannabis use yet some have died just from drinking too much water
And soon even doctors will admit cannabis’s medicinal qualities with legitimacy as research is finally done as a legal substance once again
It was a legal substance for thousands of years and even Bayer the pharmacy giants number 1 ingredient until the plant non patenting laws came in to effect
We can talk crime and prohibition until the cows come home but ….
Just the savings to our current systems and with soon coming 9 billion dollar new tax bills under harper for victimless personal choice crimes
Let alone new industries and new tax dollars….we are preventing by our fears
And if we face the fact that it will still be here whether we regulate it or not and if not we freely then continue to give criminals tax free billions with this choice
Some also speak of “Decrim” or as you say “”lets decriminalize small amounts”"…But what is a small amount ?
And by ignoring what decrim is in all reality …..just an illusion…you eventually have to get back to “”supply”"
Ignore “supply” and you actually strengthen crimes hold on cannabis
It may grow on trees but it doesn’t fall from the sky
Imagine decrimed alcohol just for a second….legal to posses…yet illegal to produce or sell…
Some one will make and sell it any way as history taught us and like illegal drugs today I am sure there will be dirty and spiked drugs with our ignoring controlling it …
Just as there was in prohibition with wood alcohol being sold that caused blindness
No…… 3 million canadians have waited 100 years for a party to find the guts….even 40 years after the liberals own LeDain study
The 2002 Senate hearing that I attended said… LEGAL CANNABIS for anyone over 16 for good reasons
There are already over 800,000 canadian citizens with a criminal record for a plant paying their whole lives with lost opportunities …over victim less crime
Maybe the liberals will actually now speak for the majority of canadians when they say its time for non criminalization of personal choices especially with what facts show as harmless substances
I would add this link
http://www.cannabisfacts.ca/
And hope that those who do not partake or who are misinformed about this issue please take a look
To us its as important as life and death and we again hope the liberals do not let us down…again
We all vote ……..when there is some one to vote for
We can ignore the liberals again but do not want to
Cheers
Not sure if Canadians are ready for this yet. How about decriminalization of small amounts of marijuana? This year Connecticut became the 14th U.S. state to decriminalization small amounts of pot.
Now with 11 likes this issue if a front runner
It only took nearly 40 years and the near destruction of the party as well as the growth of another one or two other parties and even the creation of a couple more…….maybe its time to take the coward coat off and stop pretending and actually use it????
Hmmmm….me and a couple of million friends have waited a long time…..to help
I wait with baited breath
Cheers